C O M M I S S I O N O F I N Q U IR Y I N TO S TAT E C A P T U R E H E L D AT PA R K TO W N , J O H A N N E S B U R G 10 1 0 J U LY 2 0 1 9 D AY 1 3 0 20 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 P R O C E E D I N G S C O M M E N C E O N 1 0 J U LY 2 0 1 9 C H A I R P E R S O N : G o o d m o r n i n g M s S e l l o , g o o d m o r n i n g e v e r y b o d y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : M o r n in g C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s a r e y o u r e a d y ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e a r e r e a d y t h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: C h a ir b e f o r e w e b e g i n i n th e p a s t fe w d a y s y o u h a v e b e e n h e a r i n g e v i d e n c e r e l a t i n g t o Wa t e r k lo o f . F o r t h e r e c o r d a n d fo r f u t u r e r e a d e r s to d a y w e r e v e r t t o t h e e v id e n c e p e r t a i n i n g t o 10 Tr a n s n e t . T h e C h a i r w il l r e c a ll t h a t in t h e w e e k w e h a d Tr a n s n e t ’s evidence we had testimony relating t o s p e c i fic tr a n s a c t i o n s t h e a c q u is i ti o n o f 1 0 6 4 l o c o m o ti v e s . T h e s e c o n d tr a n s a c ti o n r e l a ti n g t o t h e 1 0 0 l o c o m o t iv e s . T h e t h ir d i n r e s p e c t o f t h e a c q u i s i ti o n o f 9 5 a n d in s o f a r a s 1 0 6 4 i s c o n c e r n e d th e r e w e r e tw o r e la t e d t r a n s a c t io n s – tr a n s a c ti o n a d v i s o r – a d v i s o r s a n d r e l o c a ti o n . We present today a w i t n e s s w h o is g o i n g t o s p e a k o n p a y m e n ts r e l a ti n g t o e a c h a n d e v e r y o f t h o s e tr a n s a c t i o n s a n d t h a t is o u r w i t n e s s f o r t o d a y Ms H e l e n W a ls h . If I may request that she be sworn in Chair? CHAIRPERSON: 20 J a le t h e r b e s w o r n i n o r a n a ff ir m a t io n b e a d m i n is te r e d . R E G I S T R A R : P le a s e s t a te y o u r fu ll n a m e s f o r th e r e c o r d ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : H e l e n J a n e t Wa ls h , s p e l t W a l s h . REGISTRAR: D o y o u h a v e a n y o b j e c t io n w i th m a k i n g t h e p r e s c r i b e d a ffir m a t i o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I d o n o t. Page 2 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 REGISTRAR: D o y o u s o le m n ly a ffi r m t h a t t h e e v i d e n c e y o u w i ll g i v e w i ll b e t h e t r u t h ; t h e w h o l e t r u t h a n d n o th i n g b u t t h e tr u t h ; i f s o p l e a s e r a i s e y o u r r ig h t h a n d a n d s a y, I tr u ly a ffi r m . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I tr u l y a ff ir m . REGISTRAR: Thank you. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: C h a ir w e h a v e p r e p a r e d b u n d l e s f o r th e e v i d e n c e o f M s W a ls h . W e h a v e ta k e n t h e li b e r t y o f m a r k in g t h e r a n g e 10 B B 1 3 , 1 3 . T h e C h a ir w i ll h a v e … C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e l e v e r a r c h fil e c o n ta i n i n g Ms H e l e n J a n e t Wa ls h ’s s t a te m e n t w i ll b e m a r k e d E x h i b i t B B 1 3 [ a ] . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I n d e e d C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d C h a ir y o u – y o u m a y ig n o r e t h o s e tw o fi le s t o y o u r l e f t f o r t h e m o m e n t t h e y a r e fo r th e n e x t w i t n e s s . Ms Wa ls h ’s e v i d e n c e is b a s e d o n a n u m b e r o f d o c u m e n ts t h a t a r e k e p t b y Tr a n s n e t a n d t h e s e r e la t e m a i n ly to i n v o i c e s a n d p a y m e n t s i n r e s p e c t o f t h o s e i n v o ic e s . 20 document. She has prepared two bundles of copies of those S h e – u n l e s s t h e C h a ir d ir e c ts h e r t h e w a y w e h a v e s tr u c t u r e d h e r e v i d e n c e s h e w i ll n o t n e c e s s a r il y r e f e r t o t h e s e b u n d l e s in th e c o u r s e o f h e r t e s t i m o n y. W e h o w e v e r n e e d t o s u b m i t t h e m i n to r e c o r d a s e v i d e n c e o f c l a i ms a n d p a y m e n t s . I f t h e – i n t h a t r e g a r d w e h a v e n u m b e r e d – t h e r e a r e fi v e v o l u m e s i n a ll s p r e a d o v e r t w o a r c h le v e l fi le s w h ic h w e h a v e t a k e n th e li b e r ty o f n u m b e r in g B B 1 3 [ b ] a n d [ c ] Page 3 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 r e s p e c ti v e ly. A n d w i t h y o u r l e a v e C h a ir if I m a y h a n d in t h e C h a i r ’s copies? C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s t h a n k y o u . Yo u s a i d h o w m a n y le v e r a r c h fi le s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: There are two. C H A I R P E R S O N : Tw o o k a y a lr i g h t t h a n k y o u . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h e C h a i r w il l n o t e t h a t o n t h e s p i n e w e id e n t i fy t h e m a s B B 1 3 [ b ] a n d w e in d i c a t e in e a c h a r c h l e v e l f il e w h e r e w h ic h v o lu m e i s l o c a t e d . S o 1 3 [ b ] h a s g o t v o lu m e s 1 a n d 2 a n d th e s e a r e d i v i d e d b y tr a n s a c ti o n a n d i t h a s g o t a s ta r t o f t h r e e w h ic h a b i g 10 tr a n s a c ti o n 1 0 6 4 w h i c h o v e r fl o w s i n t o t h e n e x t v o lu m e 3 t h e n i t is f o ll o w e d b y 4 – v o lu m e s 4 a n d 5 . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e r e a r e a ls o tw o o t h e r l e v e r a r c h f il e s t h a t r e l a t e t o M s W a l s h ’s e v id e n c e . T h e o n e w il l b e m a r k e d E x h i b i t B B 1 3 [ b ] a n d is v o l u m e 1 , v o lu m e 2 , v o lu m e 3 . T h e o t h e r o n e i s m a r k e d E x h ib i t B B 1 3 [c ] a n d i t is m a r k e d v o l u m e 3 , 4 a n d 5 . E a c h o n e o f t h e m c o n ta i n s d o c u m e n ts r e l a ti n g t o c e r t a i n tr a n s a c t i o n s in c l u d i n g i n v o i c e s a n d r e c e i p ts . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Indeed so. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . O k a y. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A g a in s t t h a t b a c k g r o u n d t h e n C h a ir w e a r e ready to start. CHAIRPERSON: Let us start. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ms W a l s h t h a n k y o u f o r m a k i n g – f o r a v a i li n g Page 4 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 y o u r s e l f to th e c o m m i s s i o n . B e fo r e w e g e t in t o t h e g i s t o f y o u r t e s ti m o n y t o d a y c o u ld y o u g iv e a – c o u l d y o u p o i n t o u t t o th e C h a ir w h a t y o u r q u a l if ic a ti o n s a r e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h r o u g h y o u C h a ir I a m a C h a r te r e d Accountant. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : E x c u s e m e M s W a ls h j u s t p u l l t h e m ic r o p h o n e c lo s e r t o . C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u m a y h a v e t o r a is e y o u r v o i c e a s w e ll . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A p o l o g i e s . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Is t h a t – t h a n k y o u . C h a ir I a m a r e g is t e r e d C h a r te r e d A c c o u n t a n t. C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u a r e a C h a r te r e d Ac c o u n t a n t . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a r te r e d A c c o u n t s y e s Sir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d I w o r k fo r – I h a v e w o r k e d fo r Tr a n s n e t f o r t h ir t e e n a n d a h a l f y e a r s in t h e f i n a n c e d e p a r t m e n t . C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u h a v e w o r k e d f o r Tr a n s n e t f o r t h ir te e n a n d a h a l f y e a r s in t h e fi n a n c i a l d e p a r t m e n t ? 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s r i g h t . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a o k a y. I t h i n k y o u m ig h t … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: S t il l r a is e y o u r v o i c e . C H A I R P E R S O N : H a v e t o r a i s e y o u r v o i c e it is q u it e l o w. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o r r y o k a y. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. Page 5 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I w i ll d o t h a t . C H A I R P E R S O N : M a y b e it is b e c a u s e i t i s in t h e m o r n in g . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I t h i n k s o I a m n o r m a ll y n o t k n o w n f o r b e i n g s o q u i e t . A p o l o g i e s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I j o i n e d Tr a n s n e t i n N o v e m b e r 2 0 0 5 a s th e G e n e r a l M a n a g e r G r o u p Ta x a t i o n a n d I w a s i n t h e 2 0 0 6 a p p o i n te d a s t h e P u b l ic O ff ic e r o f Tr a n s n e t a n d I r e m a in in t h a t p o s it i o n . I am c u r r e n tly t h e A c ti n g G e n e r a l M a n a g e r G o v e r n a n c e R is k a n d C o m p li a n c e 10 in th e fi n a n c e d e p a r t m e n t a n d th r o u g h o u t my t e n u r e a t Tr a n s n e t m y d ir e c t r e p o r t i n g li n e h a s b e e n t o th e G r o u p C h ie f F in a n c ia l O ffic e r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u . Yo u s t a t e a t y o u r p a r a g r a p h 5 o f y o u r s ta t e m e n t t h a t b y v ir t u e o f w o r k in g i n t h e c o m p a n y ’s g r o u p f i n a n c e y o u h a v e a c l e a r k n o w l e d g e a n d u n d e r s t a n d in g o f t h e p a y m e n t p r o c e s s e s in v o lv e d w i t h i n Tr a n s n e t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: C a n y o u t a k e u s to – t h r o u g h w h a t th o s e p a y m e n t p r o c e s s e s i n v o lv e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h r o u g h y o u C h a ir. T h e p a y m e n t p r o c e s s 20 c a n b e g i n w i t h e i th e r th e c r e a t io n o f th e p u r c h a s e r e q u i s i ti o n i n o u r S A P S s y s t e m w h ic h i s o u r a c c o u n ti n g f i n a n c i n g s y s t e m fo r g o o d s o r s e r v ic e s r e c e iv e d o r t o b e p r o v i d e d b a s e d o n a p r o c u r e m e n t e v e n t . W e t h e n h a v e d e l e g a t e d a u t h o r i t ie s th a t w o u l d a p p r o v e t h a t i n l in e w i t h o u r d e l e g a ti o n p r o v id e d u l t i m a te ly c o m i n g th e b o a r d b u t t h a t i s t h e n p a s s e d t h r o u g h th e r e s t o f t h e o r g a n is a ti o n . O n c e th e p u r c h a s e r e q u is i t io n is Page 6 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 a p p r o v e d o r r e l e a s e d b y t h e d e l e g a t e d a u th o r i ty t h e p r o c u r e m e n t d e p a r t m e n t is s u e s a p u r c h a s e o r d e r. I f th e p r o c e s s d o e s n o t s t a r t w i th t h e c r e a ti o n o f a p u r c h a s e r e q u is i ti o n a p a y m e n t a d v ic e is p r e p a r e d in w h ic h c a s e n o p u r c h a s e r e q u is it i o n n o r is a p u r c h a s e o r d e r is s u e d . T h e e m p l o y e e s – c e r t a i n e m p l o y e e s i n t h e o r g a n is a ti o n in c e r t a i n – i n d i ff e r e n t f u n c t i o n s b e th a t i n t h e f i n a n c e f u n c ti o n o r i n th e p r o c u r e m e n t f u n c t i o n w il l r e c e iv e d e l e g a t io n t o a p p r o v e in v o ic e s f o r p a y m e n ts . T h e y a r e r e q u ir e d t o e n s u r e t h a t th e p a y m e n t i s a c t u a l ly f o r g o o d s r e c e iv e d o r s e r v ic e s r e n d e r e d a n d h a s b e e n a p p r o p r i a t e ly a u t h o r is e d . T h a t th e 10 d o c u m e n t a ti o n c o m p li e s w i t h a n y n e c e s s a r y l e g is l a t i o n i n c lu d in g t a x a n d VAT l e g is la t io n . T h a t t h e a ll o c a ti o n o f t h e p a y m e n t is m a d e c o r r e c t ly a n d t h a t t h e f u n d s a r e a v a il a b l e i n o r d e r t o m a k e t h e p a y m e n t . They are a ls o r e q u ir e d to v e r if y that the necessary delegated s ig n a to r i e s h a v e s i g n e d t h e in v o ic e a c c o r d i n g ly a n d in t h e e v e n t a p a y m e n t a d v is e is u s e d s i m i l a r l y i t m u s t b e p r o p e r ly c o m p le t e d , a u t h o r i s e d a n d a ll s u p p o r t i n g d o c u m e n t s m u s t b e s ig n e d a n d a t ta c h e d . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u . A n d s t a r ti n g a t y o u r p a r a g r a p h 1 2 y o u d e t a i l t h e r e q u e s t m a d e to y o u b y th e c o m m i s s io n a n d t h e n a t u r e o f e v i d e n c e r e q u ir e d t h a t y o u p r o v i d e to t h e c o m m is s i o n . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h r o u g h y o u C h a ir y e s I d o . I h a v e b e e n r e q u e s t e d t o p r o v id e e v i d e n c e o n p a y m e n ts m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t in r e l a ti o n to the 95 l o c o m o tiv e tr a n s a c t io n , the 100 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n , t h e 1 0 6 4 l o c o m o ti v e tr a n s a c ti o n a n d t h a t tr a n s a c ti o n in c l u d e s p a y m e n ts m a d e t o t h e o r i g in a l e q u ip m e n t m a n u fa c tu r e r s a s w e ll a s p a y m e n ts m a d e t o t h o s e s a m e O E M ’s in r e la t io n t o r e l o c a ti o n Page 7 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 c o s ts a n d t h e n a s w e l l a s p a y m e n ts m a d e to t r a n s a c t io n a d v is o r s i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e 1 0 6 4 l o c o m o ti v e tr a n s a c ti o n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d c a n th e C h a ir a c c e p t t h a t a ll t h o s e p a y m e n t s a c c o r d w it h t h e p r o c e s s o f p a y m e n t t h a t y o u h a v e j u s t a r ti c u la t e d t o th e C h a ir. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: In one form or other? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s t h e y h a v e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. I f w e m a y th e n t u r n t o – o h n o b e fo r e 10 w e d o s o . A t y o u r p a r a g r a p h 1 4 y o u p u t a p a r t ic u l a r q u a li f ie r w o u l d y o u lik e to s t a t e t h a t f o r th e r e c o r d ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h r o u g h y o u C h a ir t h a n k y o u y e s . d o c u m e n ts r e fl e c t I present may p a y m e n ts in respect of The other tr a n s a c ti o n s m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t b u t m y t e s t i m o n y t o d a y is c o n f in e d t o t h e id e n t i fi e d t r a n s a c t io n s t h a t I n o t e d e a r l ie r 9 5 , 1 0 0 , 1 0 6 4 . C H A I R P E R S O N : M a y I t a k e y o u b a c k to p a r a g r a p h 11 . W h e n y o u h a v e r e c e i v e d a n i n v o ic e a n d y o u s a y y o u v e r i f y t h e i n v o ic e , w h a t d o e s t h a t e n t a i l ? Ve r i fy i n g a n i n v o ic e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Yo u s e t t h a t o u t h e r e in p a r a g r a p h 11 . 2 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 11 .2 y e s v e r i fy i n g t h e in v o ic e . The v e r i fic a ti o n o f t h e i n v o ic e is p r i m a r il y to e n s u r e t h a t i t h a s g o t t h e c o r r e c t – t h a t i t is t h e r e c i p ie n t is r e fl e c t e d o n t h e in v o ic e , th e in v o ic e it s e l f is a n o r i g i n a l d o c u m e n t , th a t i s c o m p li e s in p a r tic u la r t h a t i t is a d d r e s s e d t o Tr a n s n e t S O C L i m it e d w i t h t h e c o r r e c t VAT r e g i s t r a t io n n u m b e r s . T h a t i t i s a v a l i d – t h a t i t is a v a li d t a x in v o ic e . Page 8 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t p a r t d o e s n o t i n v o l v e y o u c h e c k in g w h e th e r t h e work has been done? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir … CHAIRPERSON: No. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : No. Th a t is d o n e b y v ir t u e o f t h e s ig n a tu r e s o n t h e i n v o ic e b e f o r e i t c o m e s t o t h e – t o t h e p a y m e n t process. C H A I R P E R S O N : To t h is s t a g e j a . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : To th is s t a g e y e s . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : S o s o m e b o d y e ls e w o u l d h a v e c h e c k e d th o s e th i n g s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Correct yes. T h a t is s e t o u t u n d e r p a r a g r a p h 1 0 o f m y a ff id a v i t C h a ir. T h e – w h e r e th e e m p l o y e e m a k e s s u r e th a t t h e r i g h t p e r s o n , t h e p r o c e s s o w n e r h a s s i g n e d th e i n v o i c e . CHAIRPERSON: S o w o u l d i t b e c o r r e c t t o s a y t h e v e r i fi c a t io n o f th e in v o ic e is n o th in g m o r e t h a n s i m p l y c h e c k i n g w h e t h e r i t c o n ta in s a ll t h e in f o r m a ti o n i t i s s u p p o s e d t o c o n t a i n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s t h a t is c o r r e c t . CHAIRPERSON: A s t o w h a t i t r e l a te s t o , w h o i t is fr o m a n d w h ic h d e p a r t m e n t is – i t r e l a t e s t o th a t k in d o f th i n g a n d o b v i o u s ly t h e 20 amount? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y a lr i g h t . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : S o t h e n i f I m a y j u s t to c la r i fy fo ll o w u p o n t h o s e q u e s ti o n s t h a t t h e C h a ir h a s p u t t o y o u . Yo u i n t h e fi n a n c e d e p a r t m e n t r e c e iv e a n i n v o ic e a n d w h i c h y o u e x p e c t is t h a t t o b e Page 9 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 u n d e r s t a n d in g which you expect the person a l lo c a t e d fo r th e m a n a g e m e n t o f p a r t ic u l a r tr a n s a c ti o n s w o u ld h a v e v e r i fi e d t h e i n v o i c e – v e r i fi e d t h e tr a n s a c t i o n . Th a t th e tr a n s a c ti o n d o e s e x is t w i t h i n Tr a n s n e t w o u ld h a v e v e r i f ie d t h a t th e c l a i m b e i n g m a d e a s p e r t h e in v o ic e i s c o r r e c t a n d t h a t p a y m e n t is d u e a n d p a y a b l e in t e r m s t h e r e o f? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Is t h a t w h a t y o u a r e s ta t in g a t p a r a g r a p h 1 0 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir y e s th a t i s c o r r e c t. 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: So as a finance department you then do not d is c h a r g e t h e d u ty o f d e t e r m in i n g w h e t h e r o r n o t th e w o r k c la i m e d f o r h a s b e e n c a r r i e d o u t i t is f o r s o m e b o d y e l s e t o d o t h a t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And you say that somebody – programme m a n a g e r w o u ld t h a t b e a … M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I t w i ll b e … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I s e e y o u r e fe r t o th e m a s e m p lo y e e s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 20 B u t w h a t w o u ld w e c a l l s o m e o n e w h o is r e s p o n s i b l e fo r t h a t p a r tic u la r tr a n s a c ti o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : It w o u ld – w e w o u l d c a ll t h a t p e r s o n th e p r o c e s s o w n e r. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: P r o c e s s o w n e r o k a y. Th a n k y o u . W e – y o u h a v e t e s ti f ie d th a t a lr e a d y u p to … C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. T h e – w o u ld th e p r o c e s s o w n e r – d i d y o u Page 10 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 say process owner? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : C h a ir y e s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Ye s . W o u l d th e p r o c e s s o w n e r b e l o c a te d i n t h e fi n a n c e d e p a r t m e n t o r w o u ld t h e y b e l o c a t e d a t e a c h d e p a r t m e n t o r u n i t o r v a r io u s u n i ts o f th e – o f Tr a n s n e t s o t h a t e a c h d e p a r t m e n t o r u n i t h a s g o t i ts o w n p r o c e s s o w n e r ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t w o u l d b e c o r r e c t a n d C h a ir j u s t t o c la r i fy t h o u g h th e p r o c e s s o w n e r w o u l d b e t h e p e r s o n th a t r e c e iv e s t h e s e r v ic e s o n b e h a lf o f Tr a n s n e t. 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o i f i t w e r e a fi n a n c i a l s e r v ic e it m a y b e t h a t i t is a f in a n c e p e r s o n b u t i t i s n o t a fi n a n c e p e r s o n b y d e f i n i ti o n . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s s o th r o u g h o u t th e o r g a n i s a t io n y e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : U m i n t h e c a s e o f a d e p a r t m e n t t h e r e w o u l d o b v i o u s ly b e a h e a d o f th e d e p a r t m e n t . W o u ld i t n o r m a l ly b e t h e h e a d o f t h a t d e p a r t m e n t o r it c a n b e a n y b o d y i n t h e d e p a r t m e n t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir i t c a n b e a n y b o d y d e p e n d in g o n th e v a l u e o f t h e tr a n s a c ti o n . 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o f o r a l a r g e r tr a n s a c ti o n s i t w o u ld m o r e lik e l y th e h e a d a n d c lo s e r to t h e h e a d f o r le s s e r tr a n s a c t io n s i t m a y b e somebody below that. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I t w o u l d g e n e r a l ly b e w h o e v e r h a s t h e Page 11 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 d e l e g a t e d a u t h o r i ty t o c o n tr a c t a n d r e c e i v e th o s e s e r v ic e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : H m . S o if w e h a v e – i f h e – i f w e h a v e e v i d e n c e t h a t I have heard where it appears th a t p a y m e n ts were made in c ir c u m s ta n c e s w h e r e s e r v ic e s w e r e n o t r e n d e r e d t h e p e r s o n t o l o o k f o r w h o s h o u l d h a v e c h e c k e d w h a t s e r v i c e s w e r e r e n d e r e d a n d w h e th e r they were rendered properly or what goods were purchased. Th a t w o u ld b e t h e p r o c e s s o w n e r r e la t in g t o t h e d e p a r t m e n t c o n c e r n e d ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s C h a ir r e l a t i n g to t h e d e p a r t m e n t c o n c e r n e d a s w e ll a s th e s p e c i f ic c o n t r a c t . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . B u t th a t is t h e p e r s o n w h o s e d u ty i t is to c h e c k t h a t – t o m a k e s u r e t h a t Tr a n s n e t d o e s n o t p a y fo r s e r v i c e s t h a t w e r e not rendered? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Okay thank you. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. A n d i f I m a y j u s t a s k a l a s t on th a t . Should it be our understanding t h e r e fo r e that every tr a n s a c ti o n t h a t i s h a n d le d a t Tr a n s n e t a p r o c e s s o w n e r i s i d e n ti f ie d f o r 20 t h a t p a r t ic u l a r tr a n s a c ti o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u . M o v i n g o n t h e n to y o u r p a r a g r a p h 1 5 w h ic h b a s e d o n y o u r t e s ti m o n y s h o u l d b e w h e r e w e a r e . Yo u in tr o d u c e t h e r e a n a n n e x u r e [i n d i s t i n c t ] H J W 1 . C a n y o u s p e a k t o t h i s a n n e x u r e a n d i f w e m a y t u r n th e r e t o t h e n y o u c a n t a k e th e C h a ir Page 12 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 through that annexure. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a n k y o u C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u I h a v e a tt a c h e d t h is a n n e x u r e H J W 1 a s u m m a r y o f a l l p a y m e n ts m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t d iv id e d i n t o y e a r s i n r e l a ti o n t o th e i d e n t i fi e d t r a n s a c t io n s . T h e s u m m a r y i s s u p p o r te d b y – f o r e a c h p a y m e n t th e a s s o c i a t e d in v o ic e r e c e iv e d b y Tr a n s n e t a s w e ll a s th e c o r r e s p o n d i n g S A P r e m i t ta n c e a d v ic e o r th e S w i f t N e t w o r k R e p o t w h ic h is a r e p o r t th a t is g e n e r a te d i n t h e e v e n t o f a – o f a n i n t e r n a ti o n a l p a y m e n t . S o w h a t t h e s u p p o r t in g d o c u m e n t a t i o n d o e s is p r o o f t h a t p a y m e n t w a s m a d e b y 10 Tr a n s n e t o n a n i n v o ic e . T h e a n n e x u r e H J W 1 w h ic h is o n p a g e H J W 1 5 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : 1 5 – y e s t h a t is i t 1 5 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir … A D V P H I L L I P M O K O E N A : I t s ta r ts a t 1 4 i f I m a y. A n e n l a r g e d v e r s i o n o f i t a n d b e t te r v e r s i o n is p a g e 1 5 y e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. H J W 1 is w h e r e . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : 15. P a g e 1 5 C h a ir. T h e r e a r e t w o th e r e . T h e r e is o n e o n a n A 4 s h e e t a n d a n o th e r o n a b e t t e r – w h i c h a p p e a r s b e t t e r a t A 3 fo ll o w i n g t h e r e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y t h a n k y o u . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: B e f o r e w e d e a l w it h t h i s M s W a ls h y o u in d i c a t e d t h a t a l l t h e fi g u r e s c o n t a i n e d h e r e i n y o u r H J W 1 a r e d e r iv e d fr o m d o c u m e n ts u n d e r y o u r c o n tr o l a n d p r o o f t h a t t h e s e – t h e s e p a y m e n t s w e r e m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t t o t h e – in r e s p e c t o f t h e s e tr a n s a c ti o n , is th a t c o r r e c t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t th r o u g h y o u C h a ir. Page 13 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W o u l d t h a t p r o o f b e fo u n d i n w h a t w e h a v e id e n t i fi e d a s B B 1 3 [ b ] a n d [c ] w h i c h a r e y o u r f iv e v o l u m e s o f c la i m s a n d payments? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u , y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. S o t h o s e t w o f i le s B B 1 3 [ b ] a n d B B 1 3 [c ] if a n y o n e h a d t h e e n e r g y to a d d u p a l l t h e i n v o i c e s a n d th e p a y m e n t s they would reach the same total that you reach at HJW1? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s th r o u g h y o u C h a ir. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u . T h e n y o u m a y d e a l w i t h th a t … 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : I g u e s s t h a t is if t h e y c a n c o u n t a s w e l l a s y o u c o u n t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Okay we are now at HJW1 if you may u n d e r s t a n d – e x p la in t o u s h o w – i ts m a k e u p a n d h o w i t s h o u ld b e read? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u i f w e c a n r e a d fr o m t h e t o p l e f t h a n d s i d e . I’ v e s u m m a r is e d t h e p a y m e n ts p a i d p e r e a c h o f t h e tr a n s a c ti o n s i d e n t if i e d in m y a ffi d a v it . S o if w e ta k e t h e t o p l in e , th e 9 5 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n p a y m e n ts w e r e m a d e t o C S R o v e r t h e c o u r s e o f 20 a n u m b e r y e a r s r a n g in g fr o m 2 0 1 3 t o 2 0 1 9 . T h e a m o u n ts in t h e s c h e d u l e a r e VAT i n c lu s iv e b e c a u s e t h e a m o u n t th a t is p a i d t o t h e m is VAT i n c l u s i v e w h e r e a p p r o p r i a t e . A n d t h e la s t c o lu m n o n t h e p a g e t h e n provides the t o ta l p a y m e n t s made in r e s p e c t o f t h a t p a r tic u la r tr a n s a c ti o n t o th a t p a r ti c u l a r s u p p li e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : I t h i n k y o u m u s t te ll u s – r e a d t h e a m o u n ts fo r e a c h Page 14 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 y e a r a n d th e n u lt i m a t e ly g i v e u s t h e t o ta l . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s C h a ir. S o f o r t h e 9 5 l o c o m o ti v e tr a n s a c ti o n C S R w a s p a id R 3 0 6 2 9 5 0 6 0 , 0 0 i n 2 0 1 3 . T h e 2 0 1 3 b e i n g a r e fe r e n c e to Tr a n s n e t ’s fi n a n c i a l y e a r o f 1 A p r il 2 0 1 2 to 3 1 M a r c h 2 0 1 3 . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : In th a t – i n t h e f i n a n c i a l y e a r 2 0 1 4 a n a m o u n t o f R 1 3 6 11 6 0 0 , 0 0 w a s p a i d . 2016 R 7 8 6 6 3 0 5 4 7 ,0 6 . In 2017 In 2015 R1 927 890 921,18. R239 478 467.72. In In 2018 R 1 5 6 3 4 4 1 6 0 ,0 0 a n d 2 0 1 9 R 2 6 1 9 8 0 9 . 2 5 b r i n g i n g t h e to t a l p a i d 10 b e t w e e n 1 A p r i l 2 0 1 2 a n d 3 1 M a r c h 2 0 1 9 t o R 3 4 3 2 8 6 9 5 6 5 ,2 1 p a i d t o C S R i n r e s p e c t o f th e 9 5 lo c o m o t iv e t r a n s a c t io n . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s t h a n k y o u . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : O k a y s o t h a t – t h a t ta k e s c a r e t h e n o f t h e 9 5 lo c o m o t iv e t r a n s a c t io n . Yo u h a v e t h e n e x t h e a d i n g a s 1 0 0 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Yo u m a y d e a l w i t h t h a t o n e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A g a i n th e 1 0 0 l o c o m o ti v e tr a n s a c ti o n t h e p a y m e n t s w e r e p a i d t o C S R . In 2 0 1 3 a n d 2 0 1 4 n o p a y m e n ts w e r e m a d e 20 t h a t is d u e t o t h e t i m i n g o f t h e t r a n s a c t io n . I n 2 0 1 5 p a y m e n t s to t a l li n g R3 032 720 439.81 were made. R 1 9 11 4 1 0 1 4 1 , 3 1 w e r e m a d e . R 1 5 2 3 5 2 1 9 9 .2 0 . In 2016 payments to t a l li n g I n 2 0 1 7 R 5 8 6 7 5 2 4 6 .1 4 . In 2 0 1 8 I n 2 0 1 9 R 4 3 2 1 6 2 8 . 4 5 b r i n g i n g th e t o t a l o v e r th e p e r i o d t o R 5 1 5 8 8 3 1 6 5 4 .9 1 . T h e 1 0 6 4 l o c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n f o ll o w s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . Page 15 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th e r e w e r e f o u r o r ig i n a l e q u i p m e n t m a n u f a c t u r e r s a r e fo r o r i g i n a l e q u i p m e n t m a n u f a c tu r e r s o r O E M ’s i n t h a t tr a n s a c ti o n a n d t h e p a y m e n ts a r e s p l it p e r O E M . T h e fi r s t o n e is p a y m e n t s m a d e t o G E o r G e n e r a l E l e c tr i c . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Hm M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : W h i c h b e g a n i n th e 2 0 1 5 fi n a n c i a l y e a r. An amount of R965 712 588.14 was paid. In 2016 R564 939 592.24. In 2 0 1 7 R 3 0 6 8 4 2 7 1 4 1 .6 2 . In 2 0 1 8 R 3 6 0 5 8 2 2 5 1 0 . 6 1 a n d i n 2 0 1 9 R 1 3 8 6 4 4 6 2 8 3 . 6 3 b r in g in g th e to t a l p a i d t o G E t o R 9 5 9 2 3 4 8 n o s o r r y 10 m y a p o l o g i e s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : N o m il li o n s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I l o s t tr a c k o f m y z e r o s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : R 9 5 9 2 3 4 8 11 6 . 2 4 . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : U n l e s s I mi s h e a r d d id y o u s a y 9 m i ll i o n o r 9 b i ll io n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I s a id 9 b il li o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d th e n 5 9 2 m il li o n . 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u . Ye s . T h a n k y o u . Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h e n e x t O E M a s r e fl e c t e d o n t h e s c h e d u l e is C S R a g a i n p a y m e n t s s ta r t e d i n 2 0 1 5 . In t h a t fi r s t f i n a n c ia l y e a r p a y m e n ts to t a l li n g R 2 0 6 6 5 9 7 5 8 6 . 0 0 w e r e m a d e . In 2016 p a y m e n t s to t a l li n g R 4 4 4 7 9 3 3 8 0 3 .5 7 . In 2 0 1 7 R 2 8 9 4 5 8 1 7 0 8 . 11 . I n 2 0 1 8 R 3 2 5 0 6 0 4 0 4 0 9 . 7 8 a n d i n 2 0 1 9 R 2 2 5 1 0 3 4 4 1 4 .2 0 b r in g i n g th e Page 16 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 t o t a l p a i d o v e r t h e p e r io d to C S R t o R 1 4 9 1 0 7 5 1 9 2 1 . 6 6 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h r o u g h y o u C h a ir th e n e x t O E M l is t e d is C h i n a N o r th R a i l C N R p a y m e n t s b e g i n n i n g i n 2 0 1 5 . I n th a t fi n a n c i a l y e a r p a y m e n t s t o t a ll e d R 1 1 3 3 9 5 8 5 4 1 . 2 8 . I n 2 0 1 6 R 5 7 3 5 4 6 4 5 1 . 9 9 . N o p a y m e n ts w e r e m a d e t o C N R i n t h e 2 0 1 7 f in a n c ia l y e a r. In 2018 p a y m e n t s t o t a ll i n g R 7 4 5 1 5 6 8 7 0 .5 8 w e r e m a d e a n d in 2 0 1 9 p a y m e n ts t o t a lli n g R 2 3 1 4 4 5 8 . 2 8 w e r e m a d e . Br i n g in g t h e t o ta l p a i d to C N R fo r t h a t p e r io d t o R 2 4 5 4 9 7 6 3 2 2 . 1 3 . T h e l a s t O E M l is t e d o n H J W 1 is B T 10 B o m b a r d i e r Tr a n s p o r t p a y m e n t s a g a i n b e g a n in 2 0 1 5 a n d a m o u n te d to R 2 6 8 1 3 5 8 7 1 7 . 11 . R1 371 559 718.42. In 2016 p a y m e n ts were I n 2 0 1 7 R 8 8 5 2 8 6 3 . 8 0 w a s p a id . made of In 2018 R897 402 – R897 402 686.31 was paid and in 2019 R1 058 392 315.91 w a s p a i d b r in g in g t h e t o ta l p a i d t o B T to R 6 0 1 7 5 6 6 3 0 1 .5 5 a n d ju s t u n d e r th a t n u m b e r i t b r i n g s t h e to t a l p a i d to t h e f o u r O E M ’s f o r p e r io d d is c l o s e d h e r e t o R 3 2 9 7 5 6 4 2 6 6 1 . 5 8 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o t h a t i s t h e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c t i o n . O k a y w e c a n m o v e o n t o t h e n e x t w h ic h y o u h a v e l is t e d u n d e r th e h e a d i n g r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : R e l o c a ti o n c o s ts w e r e p a id t o t w o o f t h e O E M ’s i n r e l a ti o n t o th e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c ti o n . Th e fir s t O E M w a s C h in a N o r t h R a i l a n d p a y m e n t w a s m a d e i n 2 0 1 6 fi n a n c i a l y e a r a m o u n t in g t o R 3 6 8 8 9 3 4 5 1 .5 8 a n d t h a t w a s t h e t o ta l p a i d t o t h e m i n t h a t r e g a r d . F o r t h e B T r e l o c a ti o n a n a m o u n t o f R 1 9 0 3 6 1 1 0 3 .0 8 w a s p a i d in t h e 2 0 1 6 fi n a n c i a l y e a r. I n th e 2 0 1 8 fi n a n c i a l y e a r R 4 3 2 4 2 5 2 2 . 1 8 w a s Page 17 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 p a i d . A n d i n t h e 2 0 1 9 fi n a n c i a l y e a r a f u r t h e r R 1 1 0 6 8 4 6 .0 4 w a s p a i d . T h e t o t a l p a i d t o B T o v e r t h a t p e r i o d w a s th e r e f o r e R 2 4 8 7 1 0 4 7 1 .3 0 . T h e t o t a l p a i d t o t h o s e tw o O E M ’s i n r e l a ti o n t o r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts t h e r e f o r e w a s R 6 1 7 6 0 3 9 2 2 .8 8 . T h e la s t . . . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: The last one. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I d e n t if i e d tr a n s a c ti o n C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u w a s p a y m e n ts m a d e t o tr a n s a c ti o n a d v is o r s i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e 1 0 6 4 . P a y m e n ts w e r e m a d e t o t w o e n t i ti e s R e g i m e n ts C a p i t a l a n d M c K in s e y a n d C o m p a n y. T h e p a y m e n ts to R e g i m e n ts b e g a n in 2 0 1 4 a n d i n th a t 10 fi n a n c i a l y e a r a n a m o u n t o f R 2 5 7 3 5 5 0 0 . 0 0 w a s p a id . In 2015 R 9 0 2 5 9 5 0 0 . 0 0 w a s p a i d . In 2 0 1 6 R 1 8 9 2 4 0 0 0 0 . 0 0 w a s p a i d b r i n g i n g the total paid to Regiments to R305 235 000.00. P a y m e n ts m a d e t o M c K in s e y b e g a n i n th e 2 0 1 4 … CHAIRPERSON: W e l l ju s t b e f o r e th a t I s e e t h a t in r e l a t i o n t o R e g i m e n t s i n th e fir s t y e a r in w h i c h p a y m e n t w a s m a d e th e a m o u n t w a s R 2 5 m i ll io n – R 2 5 , 7 m i ll io n t o r o u n d it o ff a n d t h e n t h e fo ll o w i n g y e a r it a l m o s t w a s f o u r t i m e s m o r e t h a n t h a t b e in g 9 0 m i ll io n – 9 0 . 2 mi ll i o n to r o u n d i t o ff a n d i n 2 0 1 6 e v e n t h a t 9 0 m i ll io n o f t h e p r e v io u s y e a r w a s m o r e th a n d o u b l e d in t h e f o l lo w in g y e a r. I s t h a t c o r r e c t m o r e o r l e s s ? 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Yo u m a y p r o c e e d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C h a i r th e p a y m e n ts m a d e to M c K i n s e y i n r e la t io n t o t h e t r a n s a c ti o n a d v i s o r y b e g a n i n t h e Page 18 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 2 0 1 4 f in a n c i a l y e a r w h e r e a n a m o u n t o f R 11 0 0 3 3 8 9 . 0 1 w a s p a i d a n d t h a t w a s th e o n ly a m o u n t p a i d . r e l a ti o n to tr a n s a c t io n Th a t b r in g s t h e t o t a l f e e s p a i d i n a d v is o r s for the 1064 t r a n s a c t io n to R 3 1 6 2 3 8 3 8 9 .0 1 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ta k e y o u r t i m e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A p o lo g i e s C h a ir. I t h in k i t w a s a l l th o s e m il li o n s a n d b i lli o n s ti c k l e d my t h r o a t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h o s e w e r e h u g e fi g u r e s y o u ju s t r e a d o u t. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . T h a n k y o u I a m d o n e . 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON: If t h e s e f ig u r e s d o t h is t o y o u a s a f i n a n c ia l p e r s o n i m a g i n e s o m e b o d y w h o is n o t a fi n a n c i a l p e r s o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s C h a ir. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h e – t h e l a s t e n tr y o f – o f t h a t p a g e y o u h a v e a t o ta l s p e n t p e r a n n u m a n d t h e n y o u p r o v i d e a g r a n d t o ta l ( in t e r v e n e s ) . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is th r o u g h y o u C h a ir t h a t i s c o r r e c t . S o t h e to t a l s p e n d o n t h e 9 5 l o c o m o tiv e tr a n s a c ti o n , 1 0 0 l o c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n , 1 0 6 4 l o c o m o tiv e tr a n s a c t io n a s w e ll a s t h e r e l o c a t i o n c o s ts 20 a n d tr a n s a c ti o n a d v i s o r s a r e t h e n to t a l l e d a n d i n 2 0 1 3 t o ta l p a y m e n t s by Tr a n s n e t in r e l a ti o n to those tr a n s a c ti o n s amounted to R 3 0 6 2 9 4 0 6 0 . I n 2 0 1 4 a m o u n t s o f R 5 0 3 5 0 4 8 9 . 0 1 w e r e p a id . I n 2 0 1 5 t h e a m o u n ts t o t a ll e d R 11 8 9 7 8 5 0 2 9 3 . 5 2 . In 2016 t h o s e a m o u n ts t o ta ll e d R 1 0 4 0 5 5 1 4 8 0 9 – I a m g o in g t o s t a r t t h a t number again. In 2016 the total Page 19 of 104 p a y m e n ts amounted to 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 R 1 0 4 0 5 5 1 4 8 0 9 . 2 5 . In 2 0 1 7 … C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. T h a t i s 1 0 b il li o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s 1 0 b il l io n y e s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Sorry? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 1 0 b il li o n y e s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Shoo. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 1 0 4 0 5 b il li o n . C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , o k a y a n d t h e p r e v io u s o n e w a s 11 b i ll io n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 11 .8 b i ll io n y e s C h a ir – 11 .9 . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , o k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : R6 270 015 427.39. In 2017 p a y m e n ts t o t a ll e d In 2 0 1 8 th e p a y m e n t s t o t a ll e d R 8 8 5 0 9 2 5 3 5 8 . 6 6 a n d in 2 0 1 9 th e p a y m e n ts to t a l le d R 4 7 2 0 2 3 5 7 5 5 . 7 6 . M e a n in g th a t o v e r th e to t a l p e r i o d i n r e l a ti o n t o th e i d e n ti fi e d t r a n s a c t io n s p a y m e n ts made to the s u p p li e r s m e n ti o n e d came to a t o ta l of R42 501 186 193.59. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 20 N o w t h a t – t h a t is u p to 2 0 1 9 . D o y o u k n o w w h e t h e r – w h e t h e r o r n o t in r e s p e c t o f a n y o n e o f t h e s e tr a n s a c t io n s a n y f u r th e r p a y m e n ts a r e e x p e c t e d to b e m a d e g o i n g fo r w a r d o r h a v e a l l tr a n s a c ti o n s b e i n g s e tt l e d n o w ? W o u l d y o u k n o w ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir through you the 95 – the tr a n s a c ti o n s t h a t I d o k n o w t h a t h a v e t e r m i n a t e d o r c o n tr a c t s w it h R e g i m e n t s C a p i t a l a n d M c K in s e y & C o … Page 20 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : And a c c o r d i n g ly it is also why the s c h e d u l e s h o w s n o p a y m e n ts s u b s e q u e n t t o t h e 2 0 1 6 f in a n c i a l y e a r. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: B u t in s o f a r a s 1 0 6 4 is c o n c e r n e d a r e th e r e a n y f u r t h e r c l a i ms t o b e m a d e b y t h e O E M s t o Tr a n s n e t t o y o u r knowledge? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : B y Tr a n s n e t t o t h e O E M s ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N o b y th e O E M s t o Tr a n s n e t ? Is Tr a n s n e t s ti ll owing any of the OEMs in respect of 1064? 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o f u r th e r p a y m e n ts a r e s t il l t o b e m a d e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : F u r t h e r p a y m e n t s a r e s ti ll t o b e m a d e . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Then based on your answer do you have a s e n s e o f – I a m l o o k i n g a t 1 0 6 4 . Yo u r t o ta l t h e r e is 3 2 9 - o d d b i lli o n . W o u l d y o u k n o w w h a t p e r c e n t a g e t h a t r e p r e s e n ts r e l a t iv e t o th e t o t a l p a y a b le t o e a c h O E M ? Is t h a t 3 2 b i ll i o n 4 0 p e r c e n t o f th e … M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u I … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O f t h e c o n tr a c ts ? A r e y o u a b l e t o s a y ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 20 T h r o u g h y o u I a m n o t i n a p o s i ti o n to answer that question. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W o u l d th e P r o c e s s O w n e r s b e i n a p o s i ti o n to a s s is t u s i n t h a t r e g a r d ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u . T h a n k y o u M r W a l s h – M s W a ls h f o r t h a t d e t a i le d r e s p o n s e . Yo u – a t p a r a g r a p h 1 7 y o u i n f o r m th e C h a ir Page 21 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 on how he should read the volumes that you have submitted. Th e s e a r e i n B B 1 3 B a n d C . Is t h a t s o ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d y o u i n d i c a t e th a t v o l u m e o n e r e la t e s t o t h e 9 5 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n . A l l i n v o ic e s a n d p a y m e n ts a r e i n v o lu m e one? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Vo lu m e t w o is in r e s p e c t o f 1 0 0 l o c o m o t iv e s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . 10 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Vo lu m e t h r e e is 1 0 6 4 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Vo l u m e fo u r is r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts a n d v o lu m e s fi v e c o n ta i n s tr a n s a c t io n a d v i s o r s c o s ts ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: So based on your HJ1 - one armed with HJ1 w h ic h i s th e ta b le y o u h a v e j u s t ta k e n u s t h r o u g h i f th e y w a n t e d v e r i fic a ti o n i n r e s p e c t o f a n y p a r t ic u l a r tr a n s a c ti o n o r p a y m e n t t o a n y o f t h e l is te d e n ti ti e s y o u h a v e li s te d o n e n e e d s t o fir s t i d e n t i fy t h e r i g h t v o l u m e a n d in t h a t v o lu m e t h e y w il l fi n d t h e s u p p o r ti n g d o c u m e n ta t io n ? 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. If t h e n y o u m a y t u r n t o y o u r p a r a g r a p h 1 8 a n d e x p la i n t h e a p p r o a c h y o u h a v e a d o p t e d i n p r e s e n ti n g t h is e v id e n c e t o t h e C h a ir p e r s o n t h is m o r n i n g . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : E a c h o f th e – I h a v e p r e p a r e d fr o m t h e r e c o r d s o f Tr a n s n e t a d e t a i le d p a y m e n t lis t in g w h i c h – t h a t d e t a i l e d Page 22 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 p a y m e n t l is t in g li s ts d e ta il s c a p tu r e d i n r e la t io n t o e v e r y in v o ic e r e c e i v e d fr o m a n y o n e o f t h e O E M s o r t h e tr a n s a c t io n a d v is o r s i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e id e n t i fi e d t r a n s a c t io n s . T h e t o t a l o f t h a t l is t in g w h i c h i n c l u d e s t h e v a l u e o f t h e p a y m e n t s m a d e . T h e n a g r e e s to t h e n u m b e r s t h a t I h a v e d is c l o s e d o n my HJW1. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Huh-uh. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I h a v e th e n t a k e n th e f ir s t tr a n s a c t io n t h e fir s t p a y m e n t m a d e t o a n y o n e o f t h o s e s u p p li e r s a n d a tt a c h e d in m y 10 a ffi d a v i t th e i n v o ic e a s s o c i a t e d w i t h t h a t p a y m e n t a s w e l l a s th e S A P R e m i t t a n c e A d v i c e s h o w i n g th a t p a y m e n t w a s m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t to t h a t s u p p li e r t h r o u g h o u r a c c o u n t in g s y s te m . F o r e a c h o f t h e i d e n t i fi e d tr a n s a c t i o n I f o ll o w e d th e s a m e p r o c e s s . A s I h a v e m e n ti o n e d I h a v e n o t a p p li e d a n y r e a s o n t o w h a t I h a v e c h o s e n . I h a v e s i m p l y c h o s e n t h e fi r s t p a y m e n t m a d e . A l l o f t h e p a y m e n t s a r e th e r e f o r e a t t h e t o p o f t h e l is t o f t h e d e t a i l e d p a y m e n t lis t in g . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. T h e n l e t u s t u r n t o t h e d e t a i le d p a y m e n t l is ti n g a n d y o u d e a l w i th th e fir s t o n e r e l a t i n g t o t h e 9 5 20 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n fr o m y o u r p a r a g r a p h 1 9 a n d i n t h i s r e g a r d y o u r e fe r u s t o y o u r a n n e x u r e H W – H J W 2 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: So then if we may turn to HJW2 and you e x p l a i n w i t h r e f e r e n c e t h e r e t o th e a p p r o a c h y o u h a v e a d o p t e d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u t h a n k y o u . Page 23 of 104 So HJW2 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 w h ic h a p p e a r s o n p a g e 1 7 s t a t e s a t th e t o p o f t h e – o f t h e fi r s t p a g e t h a t i t is i n r e l a ti o n to p a y m e n ts m a d e f o r t h e 9 5 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n . E a c h o n e o f t h e p a y m e n ts h a s b e e n a ll o c a te d a n i te m n u m b e r a n d b e c a u s e th is i s t h e f ir s t i d e n t i fi e d tr a n s a c ti o n t h e i te m n u m b e r s t a r ts w i t h i te m n u m b e r o n e a n d i t g o e s a c r o s s th e t h r e e p a g e s p r o v i d e d t h a t c o n ta in t h e d e t a il e d lis t in g t o r e fl e c t a t o t a l o f 9 4 it e m s w h ic h i s t h e n u m b e r o f in v o ic e s r e c e i v e d i n r e l a t i o n t o t h e t r a n s a c t io n . I f I s t a y w i th i t e m n u m b e r o n e w e in c l u d e i t o n t h e d e t a i le d lis t in g i s t h e i n v o i c e n u m b e r. T h e d e s c r i p ti o n o f t h e p a y m e n t w h i c h is 10 t a k e n fr o m t h e in v o ic e . T h e v a l u e o f t h e i n v o i c e s h o w in g o n t h e schedule as the amount. T h e VAT i f a n y r a is e d o n t h a t i n v o ic e a n d t h e r e f o r e t h e t o t a l a m o u n t b e in g th e s u m o f t h e a m o u n t p l u s t h e VAT a n d t h e n l a s t c o l u m n is th e p a y m e n t d a te t h e d a t e o n w h i c h p a y m e n t was made. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: M y a p o lo g ie s . B e f o r e – b e fo r e y o u m o v e o n t h is – y o u r li s t o f – t h i s li s ti n g r u n s o v e r th r e e p a g e s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : E n d in g a t p a g e 1 9 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A t p a g e 1 9 r ig h t b o t t o m c o r n e r y o u h a v e lis t e d a n u m b e r o f p a y m e n ts id e n ti f ie d a s M a r c h 2 0 1 3 , 2 0 1 4 a n d s o f o r t h u n ti l 2015? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s C h a ir. T h o s e – w h a t t h a t i s , is a s u m m a r y o f th e p a y m e n ts m a d e p e r a n n u m a n d t h a t s u m m a r y p e r a n n u m a g r e e s to H J W 1 t h e n u m b e r s th a t I r e a d o u t e a r li e r a n d t h e t o ta l Page 24 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 o f th o s e p a y m e n ts m a d e a g a i n a g r e e s t o t h e t o t a l o f t h e p a y m e n t s m a d e i n r e la t i o n t o t h e t r a n s a c t io n o n H J W 1 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: S o t e c h n ic a lly H J W 1 ju s t r e f l e c ts t h e to t a l a m o u n ts in t h i s r e s p e c t o n 9 5 a s a p p e a r a t p a g e 1 9 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d t h a t s a m e s y s te m t h e n y o u a p p ly t o a l l t h e o th e r tr a n s a c ti o n s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A b s o lu t e l y. T h e y a r e i d e n t ic a l . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d e a c h tr a n s a c ti o n y o u p r o v id e a – y o u c a l l 10 it a p a y m e n t l is t in g ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: G iv i n g d e t a i l in t h e p a y m e n t l is ti n g o f e v e r y s in g le i n v o ic e t h a t w a s i s s u e d t o Tr a n s n e t t h e p a y m e n t th a t w a s m a d e in r e s p e c t o f t h a t i n v o i c e a n d t h e d a t e o f p a y m e n t . A t t h e c o n c lu s i o n o f w h ic h y o u p r o v i d e d a to t a l o f p a y m e n ts m a d e in e a c h p a r ti c u la r y e a r a n d t h e g r a n d t o t a l m a d e t o t h a t – i n r e s p e c t o f t h a t t r a n s a c t io n a s r e fl e c t e d in H – H J W 1 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir y e s th a t i s c o r r e c t. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Al r i g h t . W e u n d e r s t a n d . N o w y o u h a v e – y o u 20 s a y w h e n – w h e n w e c o n s i d e r t h e – th e l is ti n g i n r e s p e c t o f e a c h l is t in g y o u h a v e ta k e n th e fir s t p a y m e n t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d f o r u s to u n d e r s ta n d t h e i n v o ic e s a n d th e p a y m e n t s y o u w i ll d e a l w i th t h e f ir s t p a y m e n t i n e a c h l is ti n g ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t C h a ir. Page 25 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And once we understand that approach we can a p p ly i t to a l l o t h e r – t o t h e r e s t o f th e i t e m s l is te d h e r e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: On 94? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s t h a t is c o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. Th e n w e a r e a t y o u r p a g e 1 7 . W e s e e t h a t y o u r i t e m o n e w h ic h is y o u r fir s t i s a n a d v a n c e d p a y m e n t o f 1 0 p e r c e n t o f t h e t o ta l c o n tr a c t p r ic e o f 2 6 8 mi ll i o n t o C S R w h ic h w a s e ffe c te d o n 2 1 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 2 ? 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. Yo u m a y p r o c e e d M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I f I t h e n m o v e to p a g e H J W 2 1 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Say that again ma’am? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I s a id if I m o v e t o p a g e … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Page? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : H J W 2 1 o r p a g e 2 1 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Page 21. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : P a g e 2 1 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 20 Page 21. I just got confused. I thought you w e r e t a lk i n g a b o u t a n a n n e x u r e y e s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A p o l o g i e s . S o r r y C h a ir. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h a t w il l b e f o r t h e r e c o r d y o u r A n n e x u r e HJW2A? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you, alright. Page 26 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : If I move to HJW2A, yes. T h a t is th e in v o ic e t h a t t h e i t e m n u m b e r o n e r e f e r s to . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : O n t h e t o p l e f t h a n d s i d e o n e c a n s e e t h a t it s a y s C S R E - l o c o S u p p ly ( P t y ) L td . T h e w o r d “ i n v o i c e ” a p p e a r s i n th e t o p m i d d l e o f t h e p a g e . O n t h e r i g h t h a n d s id e i t s a y s i n v o ic e n u m b e r S A 9 5 N E L / 0 1 a n d th a t is id e n tic a l t o t h e r e f e r e n c e o n t h e p a y m e n t lis t in g . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h e d e s c r i p ti o n o n th e p a y m e n t li s t i n g is b a s e d o n t h e d e s c r i p t i o n c o n ta i n e d o n t h e in v o ic e . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Huh-uh. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : W h ic h s a y s a d v a n c e d p a y m e n t a n d t h e a m o u n t r e fl e c t e d o n t h e in v o ic e is R 2 6 8 6 7 9 0 0 0 a n d t h a t is t h e a m o u n t r e fl e c t e d o n t h e p a y m e n t l is ti n g . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : If we then m ove to my Annexure HJW2B t h a t is t h e S A P R e m it t a n c e A d v ic e o r p a y m e n t a d v ic e fr o m th e s y s t e m – t h e E R P S y s te m . 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o r r y. B e f o r e – b e f o r e – y o u a r e t o o – w e a r e d e a li n g w it h y o u r 2 A . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n n e x u r e 2 A w h ic h h a s g o t t w o d o c u m e n ts . T h e f ir s t b e in g th e i n v o ic e a p p e a r in g a t p a g e 2 1 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t i n fa c t . Page 27 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a t is t h e in v o ic e w e h a v e ju s t d e a l t w i th . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s t h e i n v o i c e … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h a t i s t h e n f o l lo w e d b y a n o t h e r d o c u m e n t b e f o r e w e g e t t o H J W 2 B , o k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir t h a t is c o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A d v o c a t e S e l lo if I c a n j u s t – I l e f t s o m e t h i n g o u t w h e n I w a s s p e a k in g to t h a t i n v o i c e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : O n e w ill s e e u n d e r th e i n v o i c e n u m b e r t h e s p a c e f o r t h e VAT n u m b e r a n d i t s a y s t h e r e a w a i t in g r e g is tr a t i o n . A c c o r d i n g ly C S R w a s n o t y e t r e g i s te r e d a s a VAT v e n d o r i n t e r m s o f S o u th A f r i c a n VAT l e g is la t io n a n d – a n d t h e i n v o ic e t h e r e f o r e d i d n o t in c l u d e a n y VAT a m o u n t . O n c e C S R w a s r e g is t e r e d f o r VAT i f I c a n r e fe r t o p a g e 2 2 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h e y is s u e d t h e n a t a x in v o ic e w h i c h t h e y c o u l d d o b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e a r e g is te r e d v e n d o r a n d r a i s e d VAT a t t h e r a te s t h a t w e r e p r e v a i li n g a t t h e ti m e o f 1 4 p e r c e n t a m o u n ti n g t o 3 7 20 m il li o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : R e f le c t i n g t h a t t h e t o t a l p a y a b le b y Tr a n s n e t i n r e l a t i o n t o t h is f ir s t in v o ic e w a s t h e n R 3 0 6 2 9 4 0 6 0 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o t h e t w o i n v o i c e s r e a lly r e l a te t o t h e s a m e s e r v ic e s o t o s p e a k . J u s t th a t t h e o n e is VAT i n c l u s iv e a n d t h e o t h e r Page 28 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 o n e i s VAT e x c l u s iv e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d w h ic h o n e d i d Tr a n s n e t p a y o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Tr a n s n e t p a i d o n b o t h . O n th e fir s t in v o ic e t h e y p a i d th e i n v o i c e a m o u n t a n d o n th e s e c o n d i n v o i c e t h e y p a i d th e VAT t h e n s u b s e q u e n tl y c h a r g e d a n d t h a t is r e f le c te d in – t h e VAT i s r e f le c te d s e p a r a t e ly o n i t e m tw o o f t h e d e t a il e d p a y m e n t l is ti n g . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y ; a n d t h e n y o u r – y o u r – th e p a y m e n t is r e fl e c t e d a t y o u r A n n e x u r e H J W 2 B . A m I c o r r e c t ? 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir y e s th a t i s c o r r e c t. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d a t p a g e 2 4 t h i s i s th e p a y m e n t o f 2 6 8 m il li o n w h ic h is i n r e s p e c t o f t h e a d v a n c e d p a y m e n t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t , VAT e x c lu s i v e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : VAT e x c l u s i v e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u a n d o v e r le a f i t is t h e s a m e i n v o ic e for the same advance payment? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : O v e r l e a f is t h e p a y m e n t a d v ic e s h o w i n g t h a t th e VAT w a s t h e n p a i d – p a g e 2 5 . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I am with you. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : J a . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o w h a t w e h a v e th e n a t p a g e 2 5 a s t h e 2 6 8 w h ic h is VAT e x c l u s i v e . T h e n r e fl e c ts t h e 3 0 6 m i ll io n w h i c h i s VAT in c l u s i v e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . Page 29 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I n d ic a ti n g that the VAT then that was s u b s e q u e n t ly p a i d w a s f o r 3 7 6 5 0 m il li o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d R 6 0 , t h r o u g h th e C h a ir, y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And R60, yes. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Th e c o r r e c t fi g u r e , t h a n k y o u . I take short c u ts s o m e t i m e s w i t h f ig u r e s b u t t h a t is – t h a t is h o w w e r e a d i t? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s t h a t is c o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 10 B e f o r e w e l e a v e t h e n t h a t in v o ic e a n d p a y m e n t i f y o u c a n j u s t g o b a c k t o p a r a g r a p h – to p a g e 2 1 w h ic h is t h e a c t u a l i n v o ic e r e c e i v e d fr o m C S R . I – y o u s p o k e e a r l ie r a b o u t a P r o c e s s O w n e r. C o r r e c t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d I s e e o n t h a t in v o ic e a t t h e to p r ig h t c o r n e r i n m a n u s c r i p t th e fo ll o w i n g is n o t e d a n d I q u o t e : “Based on c o n fir m a t io n received ( a tt a c h correspondence) I agree that payment can proceed. It is signed and 20 December 2012, 20 ja dated and 20/12/2012 d e s i g n a ti o n – Program Manager New …” I cannot read the rest. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u N e w R o l li n g S to c k . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N e w R o l li n g S t o c k , t h a n k y o u . W h o – w h o h a s w r i t t e n th e r e i n m a n u s c r i p t a n d w h o i s t h e p e r s o n w h o h a s s i g n e d ? I k n o w t h e y c a ll t h e m s e lv e s P r o g r a m M a n a g e r N e w R o l li n g S t o c k b u t in Page 30 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 r e l a ti o n t o th is p a r t ic u l a r tr a n s a c ti o n w h a t r o l e d o e s h e p l a y ? He or s h e – if I m a y c o r r e c t m y s e lf . C H A I R P E R S O N : I d id n o t w a n t t o c o r r e c t y o u . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I a m g l a d I r e a l i s e d i t b e fo r e y o u c o r r e c t m e C h a ir. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a n k y o u C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u . I c a n n o t – b a s e d o n t h e d o c u m e n ta t io n b e fo r e m e I c o u l d n o t a n s w e r th a t q u e s ti o n … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C le a r ly. C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u w o u l d n o t k n o w w h o w a s Pr o g r a m M a n a g e r ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u w o u l d n o t k n o w ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, a lr ig h t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. F u r t h e r t h e n d o w n o n th e d o c u m e n t I w i ll s k i p o n t h e e x tr e m e le f t w h a t l o o k s – I t h i n k i t is a s ig n a tu r e o f M r W a n g A n in M a n d a r i n o f s o m e C h i n e s e d i a l e c t . W e w il l n o t d e a l w i th that. 20 W e w i ll c o n f i n e o u r s e lv e s t o t h e E n g li s h v e r s i o n o r t h e E n g li s h n o t a ti o n s o n t h e r ig h t . I t is d a t e d 2 0 / 1 2 /2 0 1 2 . W h i c h is 2 0 D e c e m b e r 2 0 1 2 – t h e y e a r a n d i t r e a d s a g a in i n manuscript: “ A l l s u s p e n s iv e c o n d i ti o n s h a v e b e e n m e t p e r t h e a tt a c h e d e m a il . ” A n d th a t a p p e a r s t o b e a s li g h tly d i ffe r e n t s i g n a t u r e fr o m t h e Page 31 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 o n e w e w e r e d e a li n g w i th a t th e to p o f t h e in v o ic e . D o y o u s e e t h a t? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I d o . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A r e y o u a b l e t o s h e d l ig h t o n w h o w o u l d th e n h a v e w r it t e n t h is a n d s i g n e d a c c o r d i n g l y ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir n o . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: L o o k i n g a t th is i n v o ic e t h e n y o u i n d ic a te d to t h e C h a ir t h a t b y t h e ti m e i t g e ts t o f in a n c e – t h e F i n a n c e D e p a r t m e n t i t w o u ld h a v e b e e n r e c e iv e d w i t h i n Tr a n s n e t in th e r i g h t d e p a r t m e n t . It w o u ld h a v e b e e n p r e s e n t e d t o t h e P r o c e s s O w n e r w h o w o u l d v e r i fy th e 10 c o r r e c t n e s s o f th e c la i m e d a m o u n t a n d t h a t t h e w o r k d o n e w h ic h is b e i n g c l a i m e d fo r h a s i n d e e d b e e n d e li v e r e d a n d th e P r o c e s s O w n e r w o u ld s i g n . B a s e d o n t h is i n v o ic e a s a n e x a m p l e h o w d o w e d e te r m in e w h o t h e P r o c e s s O w n e r is ? Is t h e r e a w a y w e c a n d o – w e c a n d o s o ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u o n e c a n n o t d o it w i t h t h e i n v o i c e i n is o la t io n . A s n o t e d a t th e t o p a t t a c h e d c o r r e s p o n d e n c e . A ll o f t h a t w o u l d h a v e t o b e o b t a i n e d . I n a d d i ti o n C h a ir a s y o u c o r r e c t ly q u e s t io n e d e a r li e r i n m y te s ti m o n y P r o g r a m M a n a g e r s / P r o c e s s O w n e r s s i t t h r o u g h o u t th e b u s i n e s s . As I m e n ti o n e d i n m y a ff id a v i t th e 20 p a y m e n t s a n d t h e – a n d t h e a u t h o r is e d s i g n a t o r ie s a r e b a s e d o n d e l e g a ti o n s o f a u t h o r it y. A ll o f th a t w o u ld h a v e to b e o b t a i n e d t o f o l lo w t h e tr a i l f o r a p p r o v a l o f t h e – o f t h e i n v o ic e a n d m y t e s ti m o n y a n d th e e v id e n c e I h a v e a c c o r d i n g ly p r o v i d e d is li m i t e d t o p r o o f t h a t t h e p a y m e n t w a s m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t. A l l o f t h a t d o c u m e n t a ti o n w h i c h p r e c e d e s th is p o i n t Page 32 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 h a s n o t b e e n in c l u d e d a s ( i n t e r v e n e s ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : ( I n te r v e n e s ) a v a il a b l e t o d a y ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d w o u l d it b e a v a i l a b le f r o m t h e F i n a n c e D e p a r t m e n t s ti ll ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. I n o t e t h a t a l l i n v o ic e s a r e n o t n e c e s s a r i ly s ig n e d b y th e Pr o c e s s O w n e r b e f o r e t h e y g e t t o – to th e Fi n a n c e D i v is i o n a n d y e t th e y a r e p a i d . B y w a y o f e x a m p le i f y o u c o u l d 10 r e fe r – l e t u s r e f e r t o v o l u m e t w o w h ic h d e a ls w i th t h e 1 0 0 t r a n s a c t io n a n d th a t w o u l d b e in B B 1 3 B C h a i r a n d … C H A I R P E R S O N : W h ic h 1 3 – A o r B ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: BB13B. CHAIRPERSON: B? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : B C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And under tab volume two at page 2-7-5 and t h is i s i n r e s p e c t o f 1 0 0 l o c o m o ti v e s . T h a t i s a n i n v o ic e e m a n a ti n g fr o m C S R fo r 1 . 5 - o d d b il li o n . I a m n o t r e a d i n g o u t t h e f u ll n u m b e r. 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : Is t h a t a t p a g e 1 0 0 ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 2-7-5. CHAIRPERSON: 2-7-5? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Under tab w r it t e n v o lu m e two and as M s W a ls h h a s i n d ic a t e d v o l u m e t w o a r e a l l d o c u m e n t s r e l a t i n g t o t h e 1 0 0 l o c o m o t iv e s tr a n s a c t i o n . T h e in v o ic e a p p e a r s a t 2 - 7 - 5 C h a ir. Page 33 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s I a m g e t t in g th e r e . J a . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d t h e C h a ir w i ll n o t e M s Wa ls h t h a t t h a t in v o ic e is f o r a t o ta l o f 1 . 5 - o d d b i ll io n . I see at – it has got no s ig n a tu r e , n o s t a m p , n o m a n u s c r i p t a s w i t h th e p r e v io u s i n v o ic e w e lo o k e d a t b u t w h e n I t u r n o v e r le a f a t p a g e 2 7 6 t h e r e is a p a y m e n t a d v ic e f o r t h e e x a c t a m o u n t . Yo u s e e th a t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s I d o C h a i r. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: N o w i n a s i t u a t io n l ik e t h i s h o w w o u l d t h e Fi n a n c e D e p a r t m e n t h a v e s a t is fi e d i ts e lf t h a t t h a t t a x i n v o i c e is v a li d 10 and is due and payable? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th e – th e r e would be in f o r m a ti o n a tt a c h e d a s n o t e d o n t h e p r e v io u s e x a m p l e . a lot more So in each in s t a n c e I h a v e a t t a c h e d o n ly t h e i n v o i c e a n d S A P R e m i t ta n c e A d v ic e b u t t h e r e w o u l d b e o t h e r d o c u m e n ta t io n a t t a c h e d t o th is t h a t t h e fi n a n c e s t a ff w o u ld h a v e p la c e d th e i r r e li a n c e o n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. S o i f w e w e r e i n tr u t h t o g e t a ll d o c u m e n t a ti o n s u p p o r t in g e a c h a n d e v e r y i n v o ic e a n d p a y m e n t in r e s p e c t o f th a t i n v o ic e w e a r e t a lk i n g 1 0 v o l u m e s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : P r o b a b l y … 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Yo u s p a r e d t h e C h a ir … M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : M o r e t h a n 1 0 v o lu m e s . I n t h e – i n t h e – i f I m a y C h a ir. F o r e x a m p le i n th e c a s e o f i n p a r t ic u l a r lo c o m o t iv e s t h e r e is q u i t e a p r o c e s s t o n o t s o m u c h i n t e r m s o f t h e a d v a n c e d p a y m e n ts w h ic h i s – w h ic h is a p o r ti o n o f t h e c o n tr a c t b u t in t e r m s o f f o r e x a m p l e if y o u a r e p a y in g f o r a c c e p t a n c e o f a l o c o m o ti v e t h e r e is a l o t o f Page 34 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 d o c u m e n t a ti o n t h a t is a s s o c ia t e d w i th t h a t . S o w i t h o n e i n v o ic e i f y o u a r e p a y in g a p e r c e n t a g e f o r 1 0 lo c o m o t iv e s t h a t h a v e b e e n a c c e p t e d b y Tr a n s n e t y o u w il l h a v e 1 0 a c c e p ta n c e c e r t i fi c a t e s . Yo u w il l h a v e a l l s o r ts o f o t h e r d o c u m e n t a ti o n a s s o c i a t e d – a t t a c h e d t o i t a n d w i t h o u t a ll t h e d o c u m e n t a t i o n I c a n s a y t h a t I h a v e s e e n s ix l e v e r a r c h fi le s ju s t in r e l a t i o n to th e l o c o m o tiv e tr a n s a c ti o n s t o d a te a n d t h a t d o e s n o t in c l u d e a ll th e p a y m e n t d o c u m e n t a ti o n . S o – s o I w o u ld – I w o u l d – I w o u ld n o t li k e to – to s a y t h a t a s 10 a n a c c o u n ta n t I c a n c o n f ir m i t is n i n e o r 1 0 v o l u m e s … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : B u t it is a l o t o f p a p e r. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. I a p p r e c ia t e t h a t . S t a y i n g w i t h 2 - 7 - 5 I n o t e t h a t C S R i n r e s p e c t o f t h i s p a r t ic u l a r tr a n s a c ti o n a n i n v o ic e d o e s in d i c a t e w h o th e c o n t r a c t p e r s o n is – l e ft – o n t h e le f t … M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: U n d e r b u y e r. I t is Tr a n s n e t S O C L t d id e n t i fi e d t h e r e a f t e r fo ll o w e d b y c o n ta c t n a m e M s L in d iw e M d l e ts h e a n d 20 g iv i n g d e t a ils o f h e r e m a i l a n d a d d r e s s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is – C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u t h a t i s n o t n e c e s s a r i ly t h e c o n tr a c t o w n e r b u t t h a t w o u l d b e th e p e r s o n t h a t w a s id e n t i fi e d b y Tr a n s n e t o r Tr a n s n e t Fr e i g h t R a il a s b e i n g t h e r e c ip i e n t o f t h e in v o ic e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. Page 35 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Who – who it must go to. S o th e r e i s – y o u k n o w – i n a d d i ti o n t o a p r o c e s s o w n e r th e r e w o u l d a ls o b e s o m e b o d y th a t e a c h s u p p li e r w o u ld b e a d v i s e d w h o d o w e s e n d o u r d o c u m e n t a ti o n t o … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Huh-uh. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I n o r d e r t o e n s u r e t h a t i t g e ts r e c e i v e d a n d th e p r o c e s s t h e n fo ll o w e d f o r p a y m e n t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y, th a n k y o u . I think by now we u n d e r s t a n d h o w t o w o r k o u r w a y th r o u g h y o u r – y o u r v o l u m e s o n e to 10 fi v e a n d y o u h a v e d e a l t w i th y o u r p a r a g r a p h s 1 9 t o 2 1 . Yo u a t t a c h y e t another … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ms S e ll o … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : I t m a y b e h e l p fu l i f – I m e a n th e s e – ( c l e a r i n g t h r o a t ) e x c u s e m e – l e v e r a r c h fi le s f o r E X H I B I T 1 3 A a n d B t h e y a p p e a r t o b e q u i te w e l l a r r a n g e d b u t y o u d id s a y t h a t u n d e r e a c h v o lu m e a r e d o c u m e n ts r e la t in g to … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Indeed. CHAIRPERSON: 20 1 0 0 o r 1 6 4 - i f t h e r e c o u l d b e s o m e t h i n g w r it t e n t o in d i c a t e … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I d e n ti f y i n g t h a t ? C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . S o if I l o o k a t i t s i x m o n th s f r o m n o w … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I n d e e d C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : I c a n – I c a n t e ll w h a t i t r e l a te s t o . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e s h a l l u p d a t e t h e f il e s a c c o r d in g l y. T h a n k s Page 36 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 f o r t h e d ir e c ti o n C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Th a n k y o u . I w o u l d li k e n o w – I w o u l d li k e to t u r n t o y o u r H J W 3 w h ic h y o u r e f e r t o i n y o u r p a r a g r a p h 2 1 a n d t h a t a p p e a r s – H J W 3 a p p e a r s fr o m y o u r p a g e 2 6 w h ic h is t h e c o v e r i n g p a g e . The actual annexure at page 27. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . P le a s e w o r k u s t h r o u g h t h a t a n n e x u r e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 10 C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u w h a t w e h a v e d o n e i s f o r e a c h o f t h e O E M s i n r e la t io n t o t h e l o c o m o ti v e c o n tr a c t s . S o th e 9 5 , th e 1 0 0 a s w e ll a s t h e 1 0 6 4 . W e h a v e fr o m o u r fi n a n c i a l r e c o r d s a s w e ll a s t h e r e c o r d s o f l o c o m o ti v e a c c e p t a n c e s c r e a t e d a g r a f t – a c h a r t w h ic h s h o w s p e r f in a n c ia l y e a r o f Tr a n s n e t , t h e a m o u n ts th a t w e r e p a id a s r e f e r e n c e d e a r li e r i n t h e H J W 1 a n d r e f le c t s u n d e r n e a t h t h e n u m b e r o f l o c o m o ti v e s a c c e p t e d in t o d e li v e r – a c c e p t e d b y Tr a n s n e t i n e a c h fi n a n c i a l y e a r. S o o n p a g e 2 7 i n t h e f i n a n c ia l y e a r e n d e d 3 1 M a r c h 2 0 1 3 i n r e l a ti o n t o th e 9 5 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n w e a c c e p t e d n o l o c o m o ti v e s in t o p r o d u c ti o n b u t p a y m e n ts o f 3 0 6 . 2 9 m il li o n – I a m g o in g to r o u n d 20 t h e n u m b e r o ff … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Ja. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : As they are in the chart – were made. T h o s e p a y m e n t s r e c o n c i l e d to my H J W 1 a s w e ll a s t o t h e d e t a i le d lis t in g th a t w e d is c u s s e d e a r l i e r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : B e f o r e y o u g o a n y f u r t h e r o n th a t A n n e x u r e . If Page 37 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 I m a y a p o lo g i z e , C h a ir. Th is A n n e x u r e w a s i n t e n d e d t o c o m e to h a v e b e e n p r e s e n te d i n c o lo u r. I t m a k e s b e tt e r s e n s e t h a t w a y. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d w e w il l e n d e a v o u r t o g e t a c o l o u r v e r s i o n o f i t f o r e a s i e r r e a d in g . C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Th a n k y o u . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d t h e f i n a n c ia l y e a r e n d e d M a r c h 2 0 1 4 . A ls o n o l o c o m o tiv e s w e r e a c c e p t e d i n t o p r o d u c t io n a n d p a y m e n ts o f 10 1 3 . 6 1 m il li o n w e r e m a d e . I n M a r c h 2 0 1 5 h o w e v e r, 8 5 o f t h e 9 5 l o c o s w e r e a c c e p t e d in t o p r o d u c t i o n , a c c e p t e d b y Tr a n s n e t a n d th a t y o u r p a y m e n t s a m o u n ti n g t o 1 . 9 b il li o n w e r e m a d e . In t h e f o ll o w i n g f i n a n c ia l y e a r b e in g M a r c h 2 0 1 6 , t h e f i n a l 1 0 o f th e 9 5 l o c o m o ti v e s w e r e a c c e p te d a n d p a y m e n ts a m o u n t i n g t o R 7 8 6 m il li o n w e r e m a d e . C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. Th e p r e v i o u s fi g u r e , is i t 1 b ill i o n c o m m a nine? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 1 .9 b i ll io n , y e s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Okay thank you. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d t h e n o n e c a n s e e th a t a t th e e n d o f 20 M a r c h 2 0 1 6 a ll 9 5 l o c o m o ti v e s h a d b e e n d e l iv e r e d a n d p a y m e n t s c o n ti n u e d b e y o n d t h o s e d a t e s in , r e a l ly b a s e d o n t h e c o n tr a c t th a t w a s c o n c l u d e d b u t b y t h e d a t e a ll l o c o m o ti v e s h a d b e e n a c c e p t e d b y Tr a n s n e t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o w h e n w e lo o k a t H J W 3 , a t th e t o p y o u h a v e t h e h e a d i n g a n d in s i d e t h e c h a r t y o u h a v e a n o t h e r h e a d in g C R 9 5 C l a s s Page 38 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 2 0 e l o c o s 3 , 4 3 2 ,0 0 0 ,0 0 0 a n d a ll ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. Th a t fi g u r e c o r r e s p o n d s w i t h th e f ig u r e y o u h a v e a ll o c a t e d t o C S R f o r th e 9 5 lo c o s i n H J W 1 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : W h a t y o u a r e p r o v i d i n g h e r e is y o u r c o r r e la t in g d e l iv e r y o f th e l o c o s w i th th e p a y m e n t f o r e a c h s p e c i fic y e a r. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir, t h r o u g h y o u t h a t th e c o r r e c t . I a m 10 c o r r e la t in g a c c e p t a n c e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A c c e p t a n c e ? Ye s , th a t i s w h a t . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I n t h e c o n te x t o f th e s e c o n tr a c t d e l iv e r y a n d a c c e p ta n c e a r e d e f i n e d te r ms . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A b s o l u te ly. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o I a m c o r r e la t in g a c c e p t a n c e w i th payments made, yes. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. Al r i g h t s o n o w w e k n o w h o w t o u n d e r s t a n d H J W 3 . B a s i c a ll y i t is a n o v e r v ie w o f t h e e n t ir e 9 5 tr a n s a c ti o n ? 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t , y e s C h a ir. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I n t e r m s o f a c c e p t a n c e a n d p a y m e n t s , o k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a n k y o u . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h a n k y o u . S o th e n a n d t h e n y o u a r e s u g g e s t in g t o t h e C h a ir t h a t w h e n w e g o in t o t h e v o l u m e s a n d l o o k s p e c i f ic a l ly a t 9 5 , w e s h o u ld f o l lo w th e s a m e f o r m a t? Page 39 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s , C h a ir. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: In respect of each invoice? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I n r e s p e c t o f e a c h in v o ic e a b s o lu t e l y. A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : S o w e u n d e r s t a n d h o w y o u d o i t a n d h o w y o u m o v e o n t o t h e 1 0 0 l o c o m o tiv e tr a n s a c ti o n a t fr o m y o u r p a r a g r a p h 2 2 page 6. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s , C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I h a v e a g a in a tt a c h e d . 10 CHAIRPERSON: I am sorry; what paragraph are we on now? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: S o r r y, C h a ir. W e a r e a t h e r p a r a g r a p h 2 2 s t a te m e n t p a g e 6 . CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h r o u g h y o u , C h a ir, I h a v e b e e n i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e 1 0 0 lo c o m o t iv e t r a n s a c t io n fir s t a l s o p r o v i d e d a d e t a il e d lis t in g o f a ll p a y m e n t s m a d e i n r e l a ti o n t o th a t tr a n s a c ti o n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Hm. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : W h i c h is i n m y A n n e x u r e H J W 4 . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: We are at HJW4 page 29. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A g a in th e p a y m e n ts m a d e fo r t h is c o n t r a c t r u n o v e r m o r e t h a n o n e p a g e o n to t w o p a g e s i n th is i n s t a n c e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : And on page 30 we again have the s u m m a r y o f th e v a lu e o f th e p a y m e n ts m a d e i n e a c h f in a n c ia l y e a r Page 40 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 c o m i n g t o t h e to t a l o f 5 b i ll io n o v e r t h e p e r i o d w h ic h a g a in r e c o n c il e s b a c k t o my H J W 1 ; t h e s u m m a r y o f t h e p a y m e n ts m a d e i n r e l a ti o n to t h e 1 0 0 l o c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c t io n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Before you m ove on, I see at HJW4 that lis t in g y o u p r o v id e fo r 1 0 0 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: E x t r e m e le f t u n d e r i te m n u m b e r, I s e e y o u started 95. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 9 5 , y e s . 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Please explain. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o t h e i te m n u m b e r s a r e r u n n in g s e q u e n ti a l ly f o r e a s e o f r e f e r e n c e . S o t h e 9 5 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n w h ic h w a s t h e f ir s t o n e w e p u l le d o u t th e r e w e r e 9 4 in v o ic e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o t h o s e r a n fr o m i t e m n u m b e r o n e f o r th e fir s t i n v o i c e a ll t h e w a y t h r o u g h t o 9 4 . I n r e l a ti o n to t h e 1 0 0 lo c o m o t iv e s th e n I h a v e s t a r t e d w i t h 9 5 a n d e a c h i n v o ic e I h a v e therefore referenced 95 and going down. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h a t w i ll t h e n . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : To 1 4 1 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ta k e u s t o 1 4 1 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 1 4 1 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o w h e n y o u s a y fir s t l is ti n g i n r e s p e c t o f 1 0 0 , it is a c tu a l ly it e m n u m b e r 9 5 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I t is a c t u a ll y i t e m n u m b e r 9 5 . Page 41 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h a t is fo r e a s e o f o u r r e f e r e n c e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t , y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s , y o u m a y p r o c e e d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o t h a n k y o u f o r t h a t , C h a ir. O n t h a t b a s is I h a v e t h e n s e le c te d it e m n u m b e r 9 5 b e i n g t h e fir s t p a y m e n t o n t h a t d e t a i l e d l is ti n g a n d s i m i la r t o t h e p r e v io u s t r a n s a c t io n I h a v e a t ta c h e d t o t h e a ff id a v i t a s H J W 4 A , t h e i n v o ic e th a t Tr a n s n e t r e c e iv e d . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I t w a s a g a in w i t h C S R . 10 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h a t is a p p e a r in g a t p a g e 3 2 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A g a i n t h e i n v o ic e r e fl e c ts th e s u p p li e r s , C S R E L o c o s u p p li e r. T h e ir VAT n u m b e r b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e p r e v i o u s ly r e g is t e r e d , o u r VAT n u m b e r, th e c o n t a c t p e r s o n i s a ls o r e f le c te d a n d t h e d e s c r i p ti o n a n d t h e v a l u e s c o n ta in e d o n th e i n v o ic e o f t h e s a m e a s t h o s e r e fl e c t e d o n my d e t a il e d p a y m e n t l is t in g . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I n t h is i n s t a n c e i t i s a n a m o u n t o f a t o t a l 20 f o r t h e i n v o i c e a m o u n t in g to R 1 ,5 0 4 ,0 0 0 , 8 0 0 b e in g a d v a n c e p a y m e n t f o r th e 1 0 0 , 2 0 e - l o c o m o tiv e s w h i c h w a s t h e c o n tr a c t w e a r e lo o k i n g a t . A n d … ( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : F o r t h e r e c o r d c l a i m e d b y C h in a S o u th R a i l? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h i n a S o u t h R a il . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . Page 42 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t . A n d t h e n I h a v e a t t a c h e d a s H J W 4 B c o n fir m a t io n o f t h e p a y m e n t m a d e b y v ir t u e o f a s a p r e m i t ta n c e a d v ic e fr o m Tr a n s n e t s y s t e m a n d th e n a g a i n r e fl e c ts t h e s u m t o ta l o f t h e p a y m e n t m a d e o f 1 . 5 b ill i o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : R 4 , 8 0 0 , 0 0 0 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. A n d th e n a t y o u H J W 5 , y o u o n c e a g a i n p r o v i d e a b e tt e r v ie w o f a c c e p t a n c e o f l o c o m o ti v e s a n d p a y m e n ts to C S R i n te r m s o f 1 0 0 l o c o s o v e r t h e M a r c h 1 3 t o M a r c h 2 0 1 9 . 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s , C h a i r t h r o u g h y o u in d e e d . Th e f ir s t p a y m e n t s w e r e m a d e a s r e f le c te d o n t h e c h a r t i n t h e fi n a n c i a l y e a r e n d in g 3 1 M a r c h 2 0 1 5 a m o u n t in g to 3 b il li o n b u t t h e r e w a s n o a c c e p ta n c e o f l o c o m o t iv e s . B u t a l l 1 0 0 l o c o m o ti v e s w e r e a c c e p t e d d u r i n g t h e c o u r s e o f t h e f i n a n c ia l y e a r e n d e d M a r c h 1 6 a n d a f u r t h e r p a y m e n t o f 1 . 9 b i ll i o n w a s p a id d u r in g t h a t . S u b s e q u e n t p a y m e n t s w e r e a ls o m a d e i n li n e w i th t h e c o n tr a c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. A n d o n c e a g a in o r I w il l ju s t fo ll o w t h e s a m e f o r m a t i n d e a l in g w i t h t h e i n v o i c e s 1 0 0 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d r e w a l s o d r a w a c o n c lu s i o n t h a t y o u h a v e drawn at Annexure 5B, Annexure 5? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O f y o u r s ta t e m e n t . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W e t h e n m o v e o n to t h e 1 0 6 4 l o c o m o ti v e Page 43 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 tr a n s a c ti o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o f o r t h e 1 0 6 4 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n , C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . I h a v e fo ll o w e d t h e s a m e p r o c e s s . M y A n n e x u r e H J W 6 s t a r ti n g o n p a g e 3 8 is t h e n t h e d e t a il e d p a y m e n t l is ti n g f o r a l l p a y m e n ts m a d e t o G e n e r a l E le c tr i c w a s o n e o f t h e s u c c e s s fu l O E M s . A g a i n t h e i t e m n u m b e r s t a r t s w it h 1 4 2 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 10 Ma’am if I may and I do beg your pardon. B e f o r e w e m o v e t o 1 0 6 4 , i t i s s o m e t h i n g i s d r a w n t o m y a t te n ti o n h e r e p e r h a p s th a t m ig h t , w e m ig h t b e n e f i t fr o m y o u r e x p l a n a t io n i n r e g a r d t h e r e t o . I f I m a y t a k e y o u b a c k to t h e 1 0 0 l o c o m o tiv e a n d th e i n v o i c e y o u h a v e p r o v id e d . I a m s t a r ti n g a t p a g e 3 2 o f y o u r s t a te m e n t B B 1 3 A . t h a t g iv e s m e , t h a t is t h e i n v o i c e f o r 1 . 5 b i lli o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I t t e l ls m e it is , t h a t is th e a d v a n c e p a y m e n t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : i n r e s p e c t o f th e 1 0 0 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W h e n w e t u r n o v e r l e a f a t H J W 4 B w h ic h is t h e p a y m e n t a d v is e a t p a g e 3 4 , a t t h e r e i s a b r e a k d o w n o f t h a t a m o u n t o f 7 5 2 , 4 0 0 , 0 0 0 . Tw o o f t h e m w h ic h d o a d d u p to 1 .5 b i ll i o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: What we are trying to understand, as that b r e a k d o w n o f 7 5 2 m ill i o n is n o t , d o e s n o t s e e m t o a r is e f r o m t h e Page 44 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 in v o ic e . W h a t i s t h e s o u r c e o f t h a t i n fo r m a ti o n th a t i t w a s b r o k e n d o w n in t w o ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I d o n o t k n o w, C h a ir. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. L o o k i n g a t th is p a y m e n t a d v is e , w h o c o u l d r e t u r n t o fo r c l a r i fi c a t i o n ? Is th e r e a n y th i n g o n t h i s p a y m e n t a d v is e t h a t w o u ld a s s is t u s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I f I , y e s . T h e fi n a n c e d e p a r t m e n t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I a m s u r e w o u l d b e a b l e t o a d v is e w h y o n 10 t h e s a p s y s t e m n o t w i t h s ta n d i n g t h a t i t i s a s i n g l e p a y m e n t a s r e fl e c t e d o n t h i s d o c u m e n t. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : W h y it w a s c a p tu r e d o n tw o li n e i te m s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. S h o u l d i t b e c o m e n e c e s s a r y w e s h a ll s e e k th e ir a s s i s ta n c e . T h a n k y o u . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a n k y o u . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : I h a d i n t e r r u p t e d y o u M s W a ls h . Yo u h a d n o w t u r n e d to 1 0 6 4 . S o i f y o u m a y g o b a c k t h e r e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir, t h a n k y o u . S o w i th th e 1 0 6 4 a s w e 20 n o t e d o n t h e 1 0 0 tr a n s a c t i o n s , t h e i t e m n u m b e r e n d e d o n 1 4 1 w h ic h m e a n t t h a t G E , t h e fir s t in v o ic e b a s e d G E is t h e r e fo r e r e fe r e n c e d a s it e m 1 4 2 o n t h e d e t a il e d p a y m e n t l is t in g . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Hm. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h e d e t a il e d p a y m e n t l is t in g g o e s o v e r four pages. Page 45 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d o n t h e la s t p a g e p r o v i d e s a to t a l o f R 9 . 5 b il li o n p a g e t o d a t e t o th e e n d o f 3 1 M a r c h 2 0 1 9 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h a t d e t a il e d l is ti n g i s , y o u h a v e in c l u d e d a s y o u r A n n e x u r e H J W 6 . A m I c o r r e c t? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . W h ic h a p p e a r s o n y o u r p a g e 3 8 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h e f ir s t a g a i n o f th o s e i s n o t i t e m 1 4 2 . 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I te m 1 4 2 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t , y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I h a v e l o c a t e d it . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d fr o m i t e m 1 4 2 , I h a v e t h e n a t t a c h e d a s H J W 6 A th e i n v o ic e . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Hm. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : R e c e iv e d f r o m G e n e r a l E l e c tr ic i n r e l a ti o n to that. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : As a n a s i d e , I d o a p o lo g iz e . T h is is t h e b e s t q u a li t y t h a t w e c o u l d g e t o f th e i n v o ic e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I k n o w i t is n o t v e r y l e g i b le . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And that invoice for record purposes, you have as Annexure HJW6A. Page 46 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S t a r ti n g a t p a g e 4 2 a c t u a l i n v o i c e a t p a g e 4 3 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t , y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d t h e n a l s o a t t a c h e d a s H J W 6 B . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S t a r t in g a t p a g e 4 4 w i t h th e a c t u a l p a y m e n t a d v is e is t h e s a p r e m i t ta n c e a d v i c e s h o w i n g t h a t p a y m e n t w a s m a d e t o G E S o u t h A f r ic a Te c h n o l o g i e s o n t h e 2 8 t h o f M a r c h 2 0 1 4 . 10 A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : O k a y. G o i n g b a c k to t h e a c tu a l in v o ic e a t p a g e 4 3 , a g a i n t h e r e is q u i te a b it w r it t e n th e r e . A m a n u s c r i p t , t h e g is t o f w h i c h is to r e q u e s t p a y m e n t o n t h is i n v o ic e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t , y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d i t w o u l d a p p e a r t h a t is a l l o c a t e d t o t w o s e p a r a t e a c c o u n ts a n d t h e t o t a l is 9 6 0 m il l io n o d d . C o r r e c t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t , y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Th e r e is a s ig n a tu r e u n d e r t h a t m a n u s c r i p t dated 27 March 2014. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A r e y o u , d o y o u r e c o g n iz e th a t s i g n a t u r e a t a l l? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N o , o k a y. A n d th e n y o u s a y a t 6 B a t p a g e 4 5 . T h i s i f I m a y g o b a c k to y o u r 4 3 . 4 3 i s a n i n v o ic e fo r p a y m e n t o f 9 6 0 m il li o n . Page 47 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I t u r n e d t o 4 5 w h ic h i s s u p p o s e d to b e th e p a y m e n t a d v i s e f o r th a t i n v o i c e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s , s o r r y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I t h a s t w o in v o ic e s t h e r e p a i d . T h e i n v o ic e w e a r e d e a li n g w i t h is t h e fir s t e n tr y o f 9 6 0 a n d th e r e is a n o th e r i n v o ic e t h a t a p p e a r s th e r e fo r 1 . 3 b ill i o n g i v i n g a t o ta l o f 2 . 3 o d d b i ll io n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is c o r r e c t , y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . H o w, l o o k i n g a t 4 5 I s e e h o w i t r e l a te s 10 t o t h e i n v o i c e w e h a v e j u s t d e a l t w i th a t p a g e 4 4 . Ta l k t o u s a b o u t th e 1 .3 b i ll io n . W h e r e is th e i n v o i c e f o r th a t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A r e y o u a b l e to a s s is t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . C h a ir, t h r o u g h y o u I w o u ld h a v e to understand the payment made. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : And whether it was in relation to this p a r t ic u l a r c o n tr a c t w h i c h is w h e r e I h a v e c o n f in e d my. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : E v id e n c e t o . S i t ti n g h e r e I c a n n o t , I d o n o t h a v e t h e s u p p o r t i n g d o c u m e n t s t o b e a b l e t o c o n fi r m th a t o r n o t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : L e t u s l o o k a t i t d i ff e r e n t ly th e n . W o u ld y o u r p a y m e n t li s t i n g r e fl e c t th a t 1 . 3 o d d b i lli o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t is w h a t I c a n n o t a n s w e r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a t is w h a t y o u c a n n o t a n s w e r. C h a ir, I s e e i t Page 48 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 is j u s t g o n e p a s t y o u r t e a t i m e . P e r h a p s in t h a t d u r i n g t h e t e a b r e a k , w e m i g h t t r y a n d l o c a t e t h a t 1 . 3 b i ll io n p a y m e n t a n d t h e in v o ic e in r e s p e c t thereto. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. W e w il l t a k e t h e t e a a d j o u r n m e n t a n d r e s u m e a t 11 h 3 0 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u , C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: We adjourn. INQUIRY ADJOURNS INQUIRY RESUMES 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: We are now at page 8, page 8 of your s t a te m e n t , w h ic h is c o m p l e t e d t h e G e n e r a l E le c t r ic p a y m e n ts i n r e s p e c t o f . . .( in t e r v e n ti o n ) CHAIRPERSON: One second. Thank you. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h a n k y o u C h a i r. W e ’ v e j u s t c o m p l e t e d th e p a y m e n t s t o G e n e r a l E le c tr i c i n r e s p e c t o f t h e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c t i o n , fr o m p a r a g r a p h 3 9 – 3 0 I a p o l o g is e , a t p a g e 8 y o u th e n t u r n t o d e a l w i t h p a y m e n t s t o C h i n a S o u th R a i l . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : 20 C h a ir th r o u g h y o u y e s . Sorry again if you could just move the mic c lo s e r t o y o u . Ye s , th a n k y o u , a l r i g h t . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I h a v e a g a i n a t t a c h e d in t h i s i n s t a n c e m a r k e d , A n n e x u r e H J W 8 a d e t a il e d li s ti n g o f p a y m e n ts m a d e t o d a t e to C h i n a S o u t h R a i l i n r e l a t i o n t o t h e 1 0 6 4 lo c o m o t iv e tr a n s a c ti o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A g a i n it a p p e a r s o v e r a n u m b e r o f p a g e s , Page 49 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 t h r e e i n t h is in s t a n c e , p a g e s 4 9 – s o r r y fo u r, 4 9 to 5 2 … ( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d f o r t h e r e c o r d th a t w o u l d b e i te m s 2 6 0 t h e in v o ic e is in t h e v o lu m e t o 3 9 4 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s t o t a ll in g R 1 4 9 1 0 7 5 1 9 2 1 .6 6 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s p e r f e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you CHAIRPERSON: S o M s S e ll o y o u a r e f a m ili a r w i t h th e s e h i g h f ig u r e s ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 10 B e e n p r a c ti c i n g C h a ir. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u a g a i n I’ v e c h o s e n t h e fir s t i t e m o n t h e lis t , t h e d e t a il e d l is ti n g , n u m b e r 2 6 0 a n d I’ v e a t t a c h e d t o m y a ffi d a v it a s H J W 8 ( A ) th e in v o ic e r e c e i v e d fr o m C h i n a S o u t h R a il in t h e a m o u n t o f R 2 0 6 5 0 0 0 . 0 0 r o u n d e d o ff a n d s i m il a r ly I’ v e a t ta c h e d … ( i n te r v e n t io n ) . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t t o t a l is n o t v e r y c l e a r. MS HELEN JANET WA L S H : No C h a ir, u n f o r tu n a te ly the…(intervention). C H A I R P E R S O N : A t l e a s t o n my c o p y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 20 N o a n d o n a l l c o p ie s u n fo r t u n a t e ly th e … ( i n te r v e n t io n ) . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : J u s t t o …( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) . CHAIRPERSON: O h I s e e i n th e h a n d w r it t e n a n n o t a ti o n is i t th e r e a t the bottom, is that the same amount? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : t h a t i s t h e s a m e a m o u n t C h a ir, y e s . Page 50 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir, y e s M s Wa ls h . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d t h e n a g a i n I’ v e a t t a c h e d a s A n n e x u r e H J W 8 ( B ) s t a r ti n g o n p a g e 5 5 b u t r e f le c ti n g o n p a g e 5 6 t h e p a y m e n t a d v ic e s h o w in g t h a t t h e in v o ic e d a m o u n t w a s p a i d fo r b y Tr a n s n e t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e a m o u n t o f 2 b ill i o n o d d ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Correct yes. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s a n d o n c e a g a i n a t y o u r H J W 9 y o u g iv e a n 10 o v e r v ie w o f p a y m e n t s to C h i n a S o u t h R a i l, a g a i n s t a c c e p t a n c e o f t h e lo c o m o t iv e s i n th e p e r i o d M a r c h 1 4 to M a r c h 1 9 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s C h a ir. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s a n d w e s e e o n t h i s H J W 9 th a t b e f o r e a n y u n i ts w e r e a c c e p te d , s li g h tly o v e r 2 b il li o n h a d a lr e a d y b e e n p a i d t o C h i n a S o u t h R a i l , is t h a t a c o r r e c t i n te r p r e t a t i o n , i n M a r c h 2 0 1 5 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s s o i n M a r c h 2 0 1 5 – i n t h e 2 0 1 5 fi n a n c i a l y e a r a m o u n t s i n e x c e s s o f 2 b i lli o n w e r e p a i d i n t h e 2 0 1 6 fi n a n c i a l y e a r 4 .4 b il li o n w a s p a i d a n d i n th e 2 0 1 7 f in a n c ia l y e a r t h e fir s t 8 0 lo c o m o t iv e s w e r e a c c e p t e d in t o p r o d u c t io n . 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o b e f o r e th e a c c e p ta n c e o f 8 0 j u s t o v e r 6 .5 – c lo s e t o 6 . 5 b i ll io n h a d b e e n p a i d to C h i n a S o u th R a i l? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t ’s c o r r e c t y e s i n r e l a t i o n t o t h is c o n tr a c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I n r e l a ti o n t o t h is c o n tr a c t a n d th e p r o c e s s m a n a g e r, I g u e s s , is b e t t e r p l a c e d t o e x p l a i n t o t h e C h a i r h o w th a t Page 51 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 s i tu a ti o n a r o s e t h a t 6 b il li o n is p a i d b e f o r e a c c e p ta n c e o f t h e f ir s t lo c o m o t iv e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Ye s . Thank you. S o th e n t h a t t a k e s u s to y o u r p a r a g r a p h 3 2 a n d p a y m e n ts t o C h i n a S o u t h R a il i n th e 1 0 6 4 , y o u n e x t d e a l fr o m y o u r p a r a g r a p h 3 3 a t p a g e 9 w i t h p a y m e n ts n o w t o C h i n a N o r t h R a il ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t y e s C h a ir, t h r o u g h y o u , I h a v e a tt a c h e d a g a i n t h e d e t a il e d l is ti n g o f a l l p a y m e n ts m a d e t o C h i n a N o r t h 10 R a il in t h i s i n s ta n c e i t ’s o n ly o n e p a g e a n d a t … ( in t e r v e n ti o n ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h a t’s y o u r H J W 1 0 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s H J W 1 0 y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d fo r t h e r e c o r d t h e i t e m n u m b e r s t a r ts with 395 and goes down to 418. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d o n t h e r ig h t- h a n d s id e b o tt o m o f t h e p a g e o n e c a n s e e t h a t i t a g r e e s t o t h e t o t a l p a y m e n ts m a d e o f 2 .4 b i ll i o n . I w o u l d j u s t lik e t o c l a r i fy th a t o n t h is o n e , w e h a v e s e p a r a te 20 t h e p a y m e n ts m a d e t o C h i n a N o r t h R a i l a s n o te d o r i g in a lly in m y a ffi d a v i t b e tw e e n t h e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c ti o n a n d th e r e lo c a t io n c o s t s . This s c h e d u l e in c l u d e s a l l p a y m e n ts m a d e t o C N R in c l u s iv e o f t h e r e lo c a t io n c o s ts b u t I h a v e p u l le d t h o s e o u t s e p a r a t e ly l a t e r i n m y a ffi d a v i t , t h a t ’s w h y … ( i n te r v e n ti o n ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o r r y b y th o s e y o u m e a n t h e r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts ? Page 52 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : The relocation costs yes. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o t h e t o ta l p a y m e n ts m a d e to C N R a r e 2 8 b il li o n a n d t h e n th e r e l o c a t i o n c o s t a s p r e v i o u s l y a d v i s e d is 3 6 8 m e a n i n g t h a t t h e t o ta l p a id t o C N R e x c l u d in g th e r e l o c a ti o n c o s t is th e 2 .4 b i ll i o n r e f l e c te d o n t h e fa r r ig h t b o tt o m o f th e p a g e , i t ’s v e r y s m a l l p r i n ti n g . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: It is then if we look at that – those columns, t h e fi r s t is 2 .8 o d d b i ll io n ? 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a t ’s to t a l p a i d t o C N R . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct. T h a t ’s in c l u d i n g c o s t o f a c q u i s i ti o n o f th e lo c o m o t iv e s to g e th e r w i t h t h e r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . Yo u r s e c o n d c o l u m n th e n i n d ic a te s t o u s , o f t h a t 2 .8 b il li o n , h o w m u c h w a s f o r r e l o c a ti o n a n d r e fl e c ts t h e 3 6 8 w h ic h , o n c e a g a i n , is r e fl e c t e d in y o u r H J W 1 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct yes. A n d t h e r e m a i n d e r o f 2 .4 b il li o n g o e s to t h e a c t u a l a c q u i s i t io n o f t h e lo c o m o t iv e s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s C h a ir. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Okay we understand, yes? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I ’v e t h e n s e l e c t e d i t e m 3 9 5 b e i n g t h e fir s t p a y m e n t o n t h a t l is ti n g a n d a t t a c h e d a g a in a s A n n e x u r e H J W 1 0 ( A ) Page 53 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 t h e t a x i n v o i c e w e r e c e iv e d fr o m C N R w h ic h is o n p a g e 6 2 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d s i mi l a r l y I’ v e a t t a c h e d A n n e x u r e H J W 1 0 ( B ) s ta r t i n g o n p a g e 6 3 b u t r e f l e c t e d o n p a g e 6 4 t h e p a y m e n t a d v ic e r e fl e c t in g t h e p a y m e n t o f th e in v o ic e m a d e . A g a i n , s i m il a r t o t h e p r e v io u s e x a m p l e th e r e ’s o n e p a y m e n t a d v ic e s h o w in g t h e VAT a m o u n t p a i d a n d o n e p a y m e n t a d v i c e fo r t h e i n v o i c e d a m o u n t e x c lu s i v e o f VAT. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 10 O k a y a n d th a t is a t o ta l o f 1 .3 o d d b i ll io n in c l u s i v e o f VAT ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s – 1 .1 3 3 y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Once again I see that the payment advice at p a g e 6 4 r e fl e c ts t w o p a y m e n ts , c o r r e c t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct yes Now if one has regard to your HJ10 and we lo o k a t t h e f ir s t e n tr y o n y o u r lis t in g w h ic h is t h e o n e y o u s a y y o u ’v e p r o v i d e d d o c u m e n t a t io n fo r, t h e 3 9 5 – i t e m n u m b e r 3 9 5 is fo r t h e a d v a n c e p a y m e n t , t o t a l a m o u n t R 9 9 4 o d d e x c lu d in g VAT. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 20 A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : Correct yes. Okay and that is a payment that appears in t h e fi r s t – a s a f ir s t i t e m o n t h a t p a y m e n t a d v i c e , 9 9 4 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : Correct. B u t w e h a v e a n o t h e r o n e n o w o f 1 .1 b i ll i o n p l u s a n d i t l o o k s l ik e th is is t h e s a m e c a s e a s w e h a d w i t h a p r e v i o u s p a y m e n t a d v i c e t o … ( i n te r v e n t io n ) . Page 54 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th r o u g h y o u C h a ir, to C S R in r e la t io n to t h e 9 5 lo c o m o tiv e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: In relation to the 95? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Ye s . A n d o n t h is R 1 1 3 3 9 5 8 5 4 1 . 2 8 c a n y o u comment on that payment, do you know anything about that payment? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o , C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u a g a in , t h is is t h e 9 9 4 i s t h e VAT e x c lu s iv e a m o u n t w h ic h w a s t h e fir s t a m o u n t p a i d w h ic h is r e f le c te d o n p a g e 6 5 a n d o n t h i s p a g e 6 4 i t s h o w in g th a t w e th e n 10 p r o c e s s e d th e VAT i n c lu s iv e a m o u n t o f 1 . 1 3 3 b u t w e ’ d a lr e a d y p a i d th e 9 9 4 s o i t ’s j u s t t h e VAT a m o u n t , 1 3 9 b e i n g p a i d . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y s o w h a t w e d o n ’t h a v e is t h e p a y m e n t a d v ic e f o r t h e 9 9 4 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir, t h r o u g h y o u , n o w e d o t h a t’s o n 6 5 , I t h in k w h a t w e d o n ’ t h a v e – a p o l o g i e s , t o c la r i fy w h a t w e d o n ’ t h a v e i s o n th e p a y m e n t lis t in g t h e 3 9 5 is f o r i n v o ic e 0 0 0 0 1 t h a t d o c u m e n t i s – I w a s u n a b le t o f i n d . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y, a l r i g h t w e ’l l ta k e – w e n o t e t h a t . B e f o r e y o u p r o c e e d I – C h a i r I m a d e a m o n u m e n t a l e r r o r i n m a k in g a 20 m e n ta l n o t e w h e n w e b r o k e fo r t e a t o g e t c la r i fic a ti o n fr o m M s Wa ls h o n s o m e t h i n g a n d n o s o o n e r h a d t e a , th a t n o te c o m p l e t e ly e s c a p e d m e . W i th y o u r p e r m i s s i o n i f I m a y g o b a c k . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : M s W a l s h I a m b a c k t o y o u r A n n e x u r e 6 ( B) – 6 (A) sorry at page 43. W e d e a l t w i t h t h is i n v o i c e a n d t h is i s fr o m Page 55 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 G e n e r a l E le c t r ic f o r 9 6 0 m ill i o n o d d a n d a t p a g e 4 5 is t h e p a y m e n t a d v ic e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct yes. A n d w e i n d i c a t e d t h a t, t h a t p a y m e n t a d v ic e a c t u a ll y i n c lu d e s t w o p a y m e n ts w h i c h c o m e t o th e t o ta l o f 2 . 3 o d d b i ll io n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e fir s t o n e is t h e 9 6 0 w h ic h w e c a n r e l a t e b a c k t o t h e i n v o i c e t h a t w e ju s t l o o k e d a t . T h e s e c o n d o n e is 1 . 3 o d d 10 b i ll io n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d y o u h a d i n d ic a t e d t h a t y o u w o u l d li k e t o g iv e a n e x p la n a ti o n to th e C h a ir a b o u t t h e 1 .3 b i ll i o n a n d h o w y o u propose you deal with it. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir, t h a n k y o u . T h e 1 . 3 b i ll io n is n o t r e fl e c t e d o n t h e d e t a i l e d p a y m e n t lis t in g , I w i ll th e r e f o r e n e e d t o l o o k in t o t h e s u p p o r t i n g d o c u m e n t a ti o n f o r t h is p a y m e n t t o u n d e r s ta n d w h e t h e r o r n o t i t r e l a t e s t o th is p a r ti c u l a r tr a n s a c ti o n a n d w i t h y o u r in d u l g e n c e a n d th r o u g h y o u , h a v e a g r e e d t h a t I w il l p r o v i d e t h a t 20 e x p l a n a t io n th r o u g h … ( i n t e r v e n t i o n ) . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , n o t h a t’s f i n e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o y o u ’ ll p r o v id e a s t a t e m e n t t o e x p la i n w h a t t h a t 1 . 3 m i ll io n r e l a te s – b i ll io n r e l a te s t o ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d th e n c h e c k a n d u n d e r s t a n d w h e th e r i t h a s Page 56 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 a n y th in g t o d o w i t h th e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c ti o n o r w h e t h e r i t w a s f o r o t h e r s e r v ic e s p r o v i d e d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct yes. Thank you and then if we may proceed on y o u r s ta t e m e n t w e w e r e – w e ’v e n o w j u s t c o m p l e ti n g C h i n a N o r t h R a i l a n d a t p a r a g r a p h 3 5 o f y o u r s t a t e m e n t y o u g iv e u s A n n e x u r e H J W 11 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir, y e s , th r o u g h y o u , H J W 11 i s t h e – a g a in t h e p i c tu r e r e p r e s e n t a t i o n o f … ( i n te r v e n t io n ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : P a g e 6 7 fo r t h e r e c o r d . 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s p a g e 6 7 , th e p a y m e n t p r o fi le a g a in s t t h e a c t u a l a c c e p t a n c e o f l o c o m o t iv e s a n d in t h is in s ta n c e i t r e fl e c ts a s n o t e d o n H J W 1 p a y m e n t s to C N R o f 1 .1 b i ll io n i n t h e 2 0 1 5 fi n a n c i a l y e a r, 5 7 3 m il li o n i n th e 2 0 1 6 fi n a n c i a l y e a r, t h e r e w e r e n o p a y m e n ts m a d e i n 2 0 1 7 b u t in 2 0 1 8 , 2 1 lo c o m o t iv e s w e r e a c c e p te d , th e fir s t t i m e t h a t l o c o m o t iv e s w e r e a c c e p t e d . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d b y th e n r o u g h ly 1 .6 b ill i o n h a d b e e n p a i d to China North Rail? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y, y e s y o u m a y p r o c e e d w e ’r e n o w tu r n in g 20 t o B o m b a r d ie r Tr a n s p o r ta t io n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u , a n d w i t h r e f e r e n c e t o p a r a g r a p h 3 6 o f m y a ffi d a v i t o n p a g e 1 0 , I ’ v e a tt a c h e d A n n e x u r e H J W 1 2 w h ic h is t h e d e ta il e d p a y m e n t l is t in g o f p a y m e n ts m a d e t o B o m b a r d i e r in r e l a ti o n t o t h e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c t i o n , t h e p a y m e n t s c o v e r th r e e p a g e s fr o m p a g e s 6 9 t o 7 1 a n d t h e t o ta l p a y m e n t s m a d e to B o m b a r d ie r o f Page 57 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 6 .2 b i ll i o n is r e f le c t e d a t th e b o t t o m r i g h t o f p a g e 7 1 , a g a i n B o m b a r d ie r w a s a ls o p a i d a n a m o u n t o f – a m o u n t s t o t a l li n g 2 4 8 m i ll i o n in r e l a ti o n t o r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts w h i c h i s d e a l t w i t h l a te r. So again the amount of 6 .2 b i ll i o n is i n c l u s iv e o f th e r e lo c a t io n c o s ts , t h e a m o u n t e x c l u s iv e o f t h e r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts i s t h e r e fo r e j u s t o v e r 6 b il li o n r a n d . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I – these invoices are referenced as item numbers 419 on page 69. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 419? 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 419 yes down to 501 on page 71 and a g a in I ’v e t a k e n t h e fi r s t i t e m n u m b e r b e i n g i t e m n u m b e r 4 1 9 a n d a tt a c h e d a s A n n e x u r e H J W 1 2 ( A ) th e i n v o i c e r e c e iv e d fr o m B o m b a r d ie r in r e l a ti o n t o th e p a y m e n t b e i n g f o r M i l e s t o n e O n e t o ta ll in g a n a m o u n t o f R 1 3 3 8 8 4 8 5 6 8 . 4 3 a n d I’v e a t t a c h e d a s H J W 1 2 ( B ) s t a r ti n g o n p a g e 7 4 a n d r e fl e c t e d o n p a g e 7 5 th e S A P r e m i tt a n c e a d v ic e fo r t h a t p a y m e n t o f 1 .3 3 8 b il li o n a n d a g a in I’v e a t t a c h e d th e c h a r t i n A n n e x u r e H J W 1 3 r e f le c ti n g p a y m e n ts m a d e t o B o m b a r d i e r a g a i n s t lo c o s a c c e p t e d a n d i n M a r c h 2 0 1 5 p a y m e n t s t o ta ll in g 2 . 6 8 1 b il li o n h a d b e e n m a d e to B T in t h e 2 0 1 6 f in a n c ia l y e a r a f u r t h e r 1 .3 7 1 b i ll io n w a s p a i d i n t h e M a r c h 20 2 0 1 7 fi n a n c i a l y e a r 8 – j u s t u n d e r 9 m il li o n w a s p a i d a n d i n M a r c h – th e fi n a n c i a l y e a r e n d e d M a r c h 2 0 1 8 w e s e e t h a t w e a c c e p t e d 1 0 lo c o m o t iv e s a n d p a y m e n t o f j u s t u n d e r 9 0 0 m i lli o n w a s m a d e i n t h a t fi n a n c i a l y e a r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o th e n , a c c o r d i n g t o H J W 1 3 b e fo r e t h e f ir s t t e n w e r e a c c e p te d a n a m o u n t r o u g h ly i n th e r e g i o n o f 4 b i ll io n h a d b e e n Page 58 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 p a i d t o B o m b a r d i e r Tr a n s p o r t a ti o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h r o u g h y o u C h a ir, t h a t ’s c o r r e c t y e s . O k a y, w e u n d e r s t a n d , s ta r t i n g t h e n a t y o u r p a r a g r a p h 3 9 a t p a g e 11 y o u n o w t u r n t o t h e r e lo c a t io n c o s ts . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d w e w i ll r e c a ll fr o m y o u r t e s t i m o n y e a r li e r w i t h r e f e r e n c e t o H J W 1 th a t o n l y t w o O E M ’ s w e r e p a id r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts , C h i n a N o r th R a i l a n d B o m b a r d ie r Tr a n s p o r t a t i o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct yes. A g a in s t t h a t b a c k g r o u n d y o u c a n t a k e u s t h r o u g h t h e p a y m e n ts o f t h e r e l o c a t i o n c o s ts . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h r o u g h y o u C h a ir, t h a n k y o u , I’ v e a tt a c h e d a s A n n e x u r e H J W 1 4 t h e p a y m e n t li s ti n g , i t w a s a b i t g r a n d fo r a s in g le p a y m e n t , b u t t h e p a y m e n t l is t in g f o r t h e p a y m e n t m a d e t o C h i n a N o r th R a i l …( i n t e r v e n ti o n ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h a t’s a t y o u r p a g e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s a t m y p a g e 7 9 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 20 A n d f o l lo w i n g t h e c o n v e n ti o n a r o u n d n u m b e r i n g i t , I ’v e n u m b e r e d it i t e m n u m b e r 4 0 0 a n d t h e t o t a l r e l o c a ti o n c o s t th e r e i s r e fl e c t e d a s 3 6 8 m i ll io n w h ic h r e c o n c il e s to m y H J W 1 s u m m a r y. I ’v e a g a in , a s th e o n l y l in e i te m , I ’v e a t ta c h e d a s A n n e x u r e H J W 1 5 s ta r t i n g – n o I h a v e n ’ t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h is i s a d i ff e r e n t o n e , y o u h a v e n ’ t y e s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : M y h e a d w e n t b e f o r e m y e y e s , a p o l o g ie s Page 59 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C h a ir. B e c a u s e I ’v e a lr e a d y a t t a c h e d a n i n v o ic e fr o m C N R a n d t a k e n i t through the process - p a y m e n t p r o c e s s I’ v e s i m p ly r e f le c te d h e r e s e p a r a t e l y f o r e a s e o f r e fe r e n c e th e p a y m e n ts m a d e t o C h i n a N o r th R a il , s o m y H J W 1 5 t h e n i s s i m i la r ly a d e t a il e d p a y m e n t li s ti n g , it s t a r ts o n p a g e 8 0 a n d is r e fl e c t e d o n p a g e 8 1 . T h e p a y m e n t li s t i n g f o r r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts m a d e t o B o m b a r d ie r Tr a n s p o r t . I n th a t i n s t a n c e it r e fl e c ts fr o m i te m s n u m b e r s 4 2 7 t o 4 7 1 a n d i t t o t a ls R 2 4 8 7 1 0 4 7 1 .3 0 w h ic h a g a i n r e c o n c i le s t o m y H J W 1 s u m m a r y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y l e t ’s d e a l fir s t t h e n w it h y o u r A n n e x u r e 10 1 4 , t h a t i s t h e r e l o c a ti o n c o s t s c l a i m e d b y C N R . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : F o r a t o t a l o f 3 6 8 o d d m il li o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W h a t w e d o n o t h a v e a t ta c h in g to t h i s li s t i n g is t h e a c tu a l in v o ic e a n d p a y m e n t . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t ’s c o r r e c t , th r o u g h y o u C h a ir, b u t w e d o h a v e i t o u r v o lu m e 4 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Our volume 4. Perhaps if we go over lunch w e m i g h t ju s t l o c a t e i t i n v o l u m e 4 f o r t h e C h a ir s o t h a t w e c a n m a k e a 20 n o t e h e r e a n d s e e t h a t w e h a v e t h e a c t u a l – th a t th e a m o u n t w a s c la i m e d a n d t h e a m o u n t w a s p a i d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y t h e n i f w e g o to y o u r A n n e x u r e H J W 1 5 , t h a t n o w i s a lis t in g fo r r e lo c a t i o n p a y m e n t s m a d e t o B o m b a r d i e r. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . Page 60 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d u n l ik e w it h C h i n a N o r th R a il i t ’s a f e w p a y m e n t s , y o u h a v e n u m b e r e d th e m i t e ms 4 2 7 to 4 7 1 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d a t t h e b o t to m t o w a r d th e r ig h t c o r n e r, y o u g iv e u s th e to t a l b e i n g 2 4 8 m ill i o p lu s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A n d y o u g iv e u s th e p a y m e n t d e t a i ls o n t h e r ig h t- h a n d c o r n e r. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 10 Ye s , C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u a g a i n , I h a v e n ’ t a tt a c h e d a n e x a m p l e . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Once again yes. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : B u t th e y a r e a ll c o n t a i n e d i n v o l u m e 4 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y n o w i f y o u g o t o y o u r – i f y o u g o to y o u r H J W 1 y o u r e f le c t a g a i n s t t h e r e l o c a t i o n – a t p a g e 1 5 y o u r e fl e c t a g a i n s t a p a y m e n t f o r r e l o c a ti o n t o B o m b a r d ie r t h e fir s t o n e b e i n g in 2 0 1 6 i n t h e a m o u n t o f 1 9 0 mi ll i o n p l u s y o u s e e t h a t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N o w i f y o u k e e p y o u – w e h a v e k e p t o u r f in g e r h o p e fu ll y a t A n n e x u r e 1 5 a t p a g e 8 1 , t h a t fir s t i t e m a g a i n s t it e m 4 2 7 is 20 1 2 A u g u s t 2 0 1 5 , s o t h e 2 0 1 6 t h a t y o u r e f e r r e d t o in H J W is t h e f i n a n c ia l y e a r, i t’s a p a y m e n t m a d e b e t w e e n A p r i l 2 0 1 5 a n d M a r c h 2 0 1 6 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d y o u r e fl e c t it u n d e r 2 0 1 6 a s t h e y e a r. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y a n d a s y o u p o in t o u t , o n c e a g a i n w e w i ll Page 61 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 tr y a n d l o c a t e t h e in v o ic e a n d p a y m e n t i n r e s p e c t o f t h i s B o m b a r d ie r r e l o c a ti o n c o s t a n d p r o v i d e t o t h e C h a ir ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u , s o w e h a v e th e n d e a lt w i t h th e t w o r e l o c a ti o n c o s t a n d th e ir p a y m e n ts a n d w e tu r n t o y o u r f i n a l t r a n s a c t io n w h ic h is i n r e l a ti o n to t h e tr a n s a c ti o n a d v i s o r s . Yo u s ta r t w i t h th a t fr o m y o u r p a r a g r a p h 4 2 a t p a g e 11 o f y o u r s ta t e m e n t . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t ’s c o r r e c t y e s . Tr a n s a c ti o n a d v is o r s w e r e s p e c if ic a l ly a p p o i n te d i n r e l a t i o n t o th e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c ti o n a n d in 10 t e r m s o f t h o s e a p p o in t m e n ts , p a y m e n t s w e r e m a d e to R e g i m e n ts a n d M c K in s e y a s n o t e d i n p a r a 4 2 . 1 3 0 5 m i ll io n w a s p a i d t o R e g i m e n ts a n d in p a r a 4 2 . 2 M c K in s e y a n a m o u n t o f 11 m i ll i o n r a n d w a s p a i d . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I ’v e a t ta c h e d a s H J W 1 6 a g a i n a d e ta il e d lis t in g o f a ll p a y m e n ts , t h e r e is n ’t a li s t i n g p e r a d v is o r t h is li s ti n g is a c o n s o l id a t e d li s t i n g a n d t h a t ’s r e f le c te d o n p a g e s 8 3 t o 8 8 a t ta c h e d t o m y a ff id a v i t . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d n o w – a n d y o u h a v e t h a t a g a in s t i t e ms 5 0 2 to 8 3 7 . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W h a t w e m u s t u n d e r s t a n d f r o m t h is A n n e x u r e is t h a t i t r e f l e c ts a l l p a y m e n ts to b o th R e g i m e n ts a n d M c K in s e y ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A n d t h e s e p a y m e n t s a r e s tr i c tly f o r a d v is o r y f e e s – a d v is o r y f e e s i n th e 1 0 6 4 t r a n s a c t io n ? Page 62 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o in f a c t tw o p o i n ts o f c l a r if ic a ti o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h e s e a r e p a y m e n ts m a d e – a l l p a y m e n ts m a d e to Tr il li o n a s w e ll a s M c K i n s e y a n d R e g i m e n ts a n d r e la t e s t o w o r k p r o v i d e d t o Tr a n s n e t w h i c h i n c lu d e d b u t w a s n o t li m i t e d to t h e 1 0 6 4 a d v is o r y tr a n s a c ti o n a n d I t h i n k a s n o t e d l a t e r i n m y a ff id a v i t t h e a d d it i o n a l i n f o r m a ti o n is p r o v id e d in – to b e tr a n s p a r e n t a b o u t th e f e e s that were paid and not to limit the payments to 1064. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 10 O k a y s o n o w w e u n d e r s t a n d t h e n fr o m y o u r p a g e 8 3 t o p a g e 8 8 y o u d e a l w i t h a ll p a y m e n t s f o r M c K i n s e y, R e g i m e n ts a n d Tr i ll i o n b y Tr a n s n e t , is t h is o v e r a s p e c i fic p e r i o d ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir y e s , i t w o u l d b e s i n c e 2 0 1 0 w i t h t h e – a l m o s t , I’ m n o t q u it e s u r e h o w t o r e f e r t o i t , t h e s t a r ti n g p o in t o f t h e in v e s t i g a t io n i n t o t h e l o c o tr a n s a c t io n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y s o i t ’s f r o m – a t l e a s t th e p a y m e n ts h e r e are 2010 to 2019? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : Ye s fi n a n c i a l y e a r s . Fi n a n c i a l y e a r s , a n d a t p a g e 8 8 y o u p r o v i d e u s a t o ta l o f 1 .9 p l u s b i ll i o n . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d t h i s is w h a t w a s p a i d b e t w e e n t h e t h r e e of them? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : B e t w e e n t h e th r e e o f t h e m a n d o v e r t h e n i n e f in a n c ia l y e a r s . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : Ye s s o w e m u s t u n d e r s t a n d th a t a l th o u g h Page 63 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 t h e s e a r e fe e s p a i d t o t h e th r e e o f t h e m t h e y d o n ’ t s tr ic t ly a l l r e l a t e t o t h e lo c o m o t iv e a c q u i s i t io n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d i n f a c t i f w e lo o k a t p a g e 8 3 fo r i n s t a n c e , o n e t h a t s t ic k s o u t is i t e m 5 4 8 f o l lo w in g o n t h a t p a g e to th e e n d o f th a t p a g e a n d th a t ’s s u p p o s e t o b e i n r e l a t io n t o t h e M a p u t o C o r r i d o r tr a n s a c ti o n . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o – a n d M a p u t o C o r r i d o r is n o t p a r t o f y o u r 10 evidence today? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct yes. A lr i g h t, w e u n d e r s t a n d h o w t o r e a d th a t lis t in g , y o u m a y p r o c e e d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir o n – th r o u g h y o u I h a v e a tt a c h e d a s A n n e x u r e H J W 1 7 a – o n p a g e s 8 9 a n d 9 0 a s u m m a r y o f t h a t d e t a i le d p a y m e n t l is t in g w h i c h a ls o s u m m a r is e s w h a t I’ v e j u s t s a i d w h i c h i s t o t a l lis t in g m a d e w a s i n r e l a ti o n t o a n u m b e r o f a s s ig n m e n ts , n o t li m i t e d t o 1 0 6 4 a n d o n th a t p a g e 9 0 o n e c a n s e e t h a t i t e m – t h a t li n e n u m b e r 1 r e fe r s to t h e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c ti o n a d v is o r y b u t th e r e ’s i t e m n u m b e r s 2 to 1 8 20 w h ic h c o v e r o t h e r w o r k th a t w a s d o n e b y t h o s e s e r v ic e p r o v i d e r s ( in d is ti n c t) Tr a n s n e t . To t h a t e n d th e a m o u n t s th a t I n o t e th a t w e r e p a i d i n m y p a r a g r a p h 4 2 o f m y a ff id a v i t a r e r e s tr i c te d to t h e a m o u n ts in li n e it e m 1 o n p a g e 9 0 b e i n g m y H J W 1 7 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s o k a y, w e u n d e r s t a n d y o u m a y p r o c e e d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : So to that end an amount of – as I said Page 64 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 p r e v i o u s ly a n a m o u n t o f 3 0 5 mi ll i o n w a s p a i d t o R e g i m e n t s a d a n a m o u n t o f 11 m il li o n p a i d t o M c K i n s e y a g a in t h e in v o ic e s a n d t h e S A P p a y m e n t a d v ic e s a r e n o t a t ta c h e d t o m y a ffi d a v i t b u t a r e in c l u d e d in v o l u m e 5 o f t h e d o c u m e n ts th a t w e ’ v e s u b m i t te d a n d a g a in I’ m h a p p y to fi n d t h o s e a n d m a k e t h o s e a v a il a b l e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a t w o u l d b e q u it e h e lp f u l t h a n k y o u . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Ye s . N o w y o u h a v e d e a lt – a t p a r a g r a p h 4 4 y o u in d i c a t e 5 m i ll io n w a s p a id t o R e g i m e n ts , a t y o u r p a g e 9 0 t h a t l is ti n g i t 10 r e fl e c ts 2 6 7 , d o e s t h a t – d o e s t h i s lis t i n g i n d i c a t e a m o u n ts c l a i m e d e x c lu d in g VAT i s t h a t t h e r e a s o n f o r t h e … ( i n te r v e n ti o n ) . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a t’s r i g h t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o w e s h o u l d n o t e a ll th e s e a m o u n ts h e r e a t p a g e 9 0 a r e e x c l u d i n g VAT ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h e a m o u n ts o n p a g e 9 0 … ( in t e r v e n ti o n ) . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e a m o u n t y o u r e fe r r e d to a n d s a y w a s p a i d t o R e g i m e n ts a n d f o r tr a n s a c ti o n a d v is o r y s e r v i c e s o f 3 0 5 i s th e s a m e a m o u n t i n c l u d in g VAT ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Correct, yes correct. Then overleaf at paragraph 45 you then deal w i t h p a y m e n ts t o Mc K i n s e y ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : M c K i n s e y y e s . A c c o r d i n g t o o u r – t o t h e a c c o u n t in g r e c o r d s w h ic h I h a v e a c c e s s e d in o r d e r t o p r o v i d e a l l o f t h is in f o r m a ti o n M c K i n s e y w a s n o t p a id f o r t r a n s a c ti o n a d v i s o r y s e r v i c e s a n d t h a t is r e fl e c t e d o n t h e – o n m y p a g e 9 0 t h e s u m m a r y. Page 65 of 104 However 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M c K in s e y i n e m a il c o r r e s p o n d e n c e w i th Tr a n s n e t a d v i s e d t o a r e c i p i e n t o f th e t w o i n v o ic e s r e la t in g t o i t t h a t th e i n v o i c e s w e r e i n r e l a ti o n t o t h e 1 0 6 4 l o c o m o ti v e p r o c u r e m e n t tr a n s a c ti o n . So I have included it as s u c h b u t i t is n o t d is c l o s e d a s a p a y m e n t i n 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c ti o n a d v is o r y o n p a g e 9 0 i t is a c t u a l ly i n c lu d e d u n d e r li n e i t e m 3 b e in g S w a t 1 t h a t is w h e r e t h e p a y m e n t w a s a ll o c a t e d a c c o r d in g t o Tr a n s n e t ’s a c c o u n ti n g records. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o M c K i n s e y c l a i m e d f o r R 11 m i ll i o n I t h in k – R 11 m il li o in . 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d – is i t 3 3 0 0 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: That amount was paid? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th e a m o u n t w a s p a id y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: E x c e p t Tr a n s n e t a ll o c a t e d t h a t p a y m e n t t o another project? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W h ic h is w h a t y o u s a y is l is te d a t y o u r p a g e 9 0 u n d e r it e m 3 S w a t 1 . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : I n c i d e n t a lly w h a t is S w a t 1 ? I s i t s o m e t h i n g we should know? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S w a t 1 i t is j u s t – i t w a s j u s t a – i t is a p r o j e c t t h a t w a s b e in g d o n e f o r Tr a n s n e t a n d th e w o r d S w a t w a s chosen. Page 66 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I t i s n o t a n a c r o n y m . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . A n d t h e n w e u n d e r s ta n d fr o m w h a t y o u ju s t s t a t e d t h a t i n r e s p o n s e t o a n e n q u ir y fr o m Tr a n s n e t i t is M c K i n s e y t h a t in d ic a t e d t h a t t h e R 11 m il li o n p a i d w a s fo r tr a n s a c t i o n a d v is o r y s e r v ic e s in 1 0 6 4 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Ar e y o u a b l e t o e x p l a i n h o w Tr a n s n e t g o t t o a l lo c a t e th a t p a y m e n t to S w a t 1 w h ic h i s c o m p l e t e ly u n - a s s o c ia t e d w it h 10 1064? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : A r e w e a b le t o t r a c k d o w n h o w th a t c o u ld h a v e h a p p e n e d a t a l l? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . We could ask either the process o w n e r t h a t a ll o c a te d it o r l o o k a t t h e i n v o ic e s a n d d e te r mi n e i f t h e – th e p r o c e s s o w n e r w o u ld b e t h e a p p r o p r ia t e p e r s o n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W it h th e – w it h t h e l e a v e o f t h e C h a ir o f c o u r s e m a y w e r e q u e s t th a t y o u d o t h a t a n d a s p a r t o f y o u r s u p p l e m e n t a r y s ta t e m e n t e x p l a i n i n g th a t in v o ic e w e r e f e r r e d t o t h a t 20 shows two payments. If you could just explain how this perhaps came a b o u t o r w h a t y o u r d o c u m e n ts r e v e a l e d i n t h a t r e s p e c t. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t I c a n d o t h r o u g h y o u C h a ir. A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : A n d i n y o u r s t a t e m e n t t h e n b e f o r e t h e C h a ir y o u a r e i n d ic a ti n g t h a t th e R 11 m il li o n i s – w a s p a i d t o M c Ki n s e y a s tr a n s a c ti o n – f o r tr a n s a c ti o n a d v i s o r y s e r v ic e s a n d y o u d e r iv e t h a t f a c t Page 67 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 s tr ic tl y fr o m w h a t M c K in s e y a d v is e d y o u n o t s o m u c h fr o m y o u r records? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A lr i g h t w e h a v e n o t e d t h a t. Yo u t h e n r e f e r u s to HJW18. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a n k y o u t h r o u g h y o u C h a ir y e s . A l b e i t t h a t th e … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o r r y b e f o r e y o u ta k e u s th e r e . Yo u m a k e – y o u m a k e a n i m p o r ta n t n o te a t p a r a g r a p h 4 7 t h a t p e r h a p s y o u m i g h t 10 w a n t to h i g h l ig h t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s p l e a s e d o . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o t w it h s t a n d i n g t h a t t h e p a y m e n t lis t i n g that we referred to in HJW16. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : D a t e d fr o m 2 0 1 0 Tr a n s n e t h a s lo o k e d a t a l l p a y m e n ts m a d e t o t h e n a m e d s u p p li e r s a n d to t h is e n d w e n o t e d t h a t p a y m e n ts w e r e m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t to R e g i m e n t s a s – i n 2 0 0 5 a n d t h a t p a y m e n t s w e r e m a d e t o M c K in s e y i n 2 0 0 6 a n d d a t e s f o l lo w in g . M y 20 H J W 1 8 t h e r e f o r e i s a c h a r t r e f l e c ti n g t o th e b e s t o f o u r k n o w le d g e a n d g o i n g b a c k i n to o u r r e c o r d s a s f a r a s t h e s y s t e m s a l lo w r e fl e c ts p a y m e n t s m a d e t o t h e s e e n ti t ie s o u ts i d e o f o r b e f o r e t h e 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c ti o n a d v i s o r y a n d tr a n s a c t i o n s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And your HJW18 you speak of is from your page 92? Page 68 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: So if we can go there. Yo u h a v e g o t a f e w c h a r ts a p p e a r i n g o n t h a t p a g e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . S o A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Tw o t o b e p r e c is e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h e c h a r t – t h e c h a r t c o n s o l id a t e s a l o t o f in f o r m a ti o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 10 I t s h o w s t h a t p a y m e n ts w e r e m a d e t o R e g i m e n t s a n d o r Tr il li a n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Hm. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Fr o m in th e t o p c h a r t 2 0 0 5 th r o u g h to 2 0 1 7 w h ic h o n e w o u ld e x p e c t . I t a ls o r e fl e c ts t h e s p e c i fi c o p e r a ti n g d iv is io n i n Tr a n s n e t th a t m a d e th e p a y m e n t s b e i n g Tr a n s n e t F r e i g h t R a il r e fl e c t e d a s T F R in t h e s li d e , Tr a n s n e t G r o u p C a p i ta l r e f le c t e d a s T G C a n d Tr a n s n e t G r o u p S e r v ic e s w h ic h i s r e fl e c t e d a s T G S . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Hm. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d w h a t t h e s l i d e d o e s is i t s h o w s t h e t o t a l p a y m e n ts m a d e p e r fi n a n c i a l y e a r. 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A g a i n fr o m A p r i l t o M a r c h o f e a c h f i n a n c ia l y e a r a n d t h e n b e l o w t h a t i t s h o w s th e p a y m e n ts m a d e to e a c h l e g a l e n t i ty a c r o s s a ll o f t h o s e f in a n c i a l y e a r s . S o o n e c a n s e e t h a t w h e n w e m a k e r e f e r e n c e t o R e g i m e n t s a n d Tr i ll i a n i t is R e g i m e n ts C a p i t a l , Tr i ll ia n C a p i ta l P a r t n e r s , Tr ill i a n A s s e t M a n a g e m e n t a n d R e g i m e n ts Page 69 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C a p it a l P T Y L i m it e d . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d i n r e s p e c t o f t h e t w o R e g i m e n ts a n d Tr i ll ia n a n d i f t h e r e w a s a s u b s id i a r y – p e r h a p s t h e r e a r e v a r i o u s s u b s i d ia r i e s th e fir s t r e c o r d e d p a y m e n t is f r o m 2 0 0 5 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Yo u r e a r l ie r t a b l e o n ly r e c o r d s p a y m e n t s f r o m 2010? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d a s i m il a r e x e r c i s e w a s d o n e f o r M c K in s e y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I n o t h e r w o r d s n o t ju s t f r o m 2 0 1 0 a n d t h a t is c o n t a i n e d in m y a n n e x u r e H J W 1 9 a n d … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: At page 94. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : P a g e 9 4 i n p a r tic u la r w h ic h r e f le c t s p a y m e n t s m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t to M c K in s e y s t a r ti n g in 2 0 0 6 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W i t h a n a m o u n t o f R 7 5 . 8 4 m i ll i o n t h e fir s t fi g u r e I r e a d in t h e c h a r t . 20 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y a n d s p r e a d in g r i g h t t h r o u g h i n t h i s c a s e to 2014? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h is i s M c K i n s e y ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s M c K i n s e y y e s . Page 70 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : S o t h e C h a i r s h o u ld r e a d p a g e 9 3 a n d 9 4 t o g e th e r w i t h a n n e x u r e H J W 1 7 s t a r ti n g a t – a t p a g e 1 9 ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: So if we want to – an understanding as to how m u c h Tr a n s n e t h a s e x p e n d e d o n t h e th r e e w e r e a d th e t w o a n n e x u r e s t o g e th e r a n d th e r e s p o n s e w o u l d b e fr o m t h e y e a r 2 0 0 6 u n t il 2 0 1 8 , M a r c h 2 0 1 8 t h a t w i ll g iv e y o u a s e n s e o f h o w m u c h h a s b e e n e x p e n d e d o n e a c h o f th e e n t it i e s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 10 I d o j u s t w a n t t o p o i n t o u t t h a t th e r e is d u p lic a ti o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e r e is d u p li c a t i o n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th e r e i s d u p li c a ti o n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : B e c a u s e o f t h e o v e r la p o f t h e y e a r s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : B e c a u s e o f th e o v e r l a p o f t h e f in a n c ia l years. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : S o y o u d o r e a d th e m t o g e t h e r b u t th e r e w o u ld – y o u n e e d t o j u s t tr a c k t h e fi n a n c i a l y e a r s a n d m a k e s u r e th e y a r e n o t d o u b le c o u n te d . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. B u t th e n j u s t fo r t h e r e c o r d h a v e y o u in v e s t i g a t e d w h e th e r t h e p a y m e n t s p r i o r t o 2 0 1 0 w e r e d u e a n d p a y a b le ? Fir s tly h a v e y o u in v e s ti g a t e d e x a c tl y w h a t t h e y w e r e i n r e s p e c t o f – w h a t tr a n s a c ti o n s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: H a v e y o u – a n d y o u h a v e n o t in v e s t i g a t io n Page 71 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 w h e t h e r t h e r e is a n y th in g u n t o w a r d in t h o s e t r a n s a c t io n s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A r e y o u c u r r e n t ly d o in g s o ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. A n d m a y w e a s s u m e th a t o n c e y o u h a v e t h e a n s w e r y o u s h a l l r e v e r t t o t h e C h a ir a s r e g a r d s t h o s e tr a n s a c ti o n s ? S o s a y w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e r e a r e i s s u e s t h a t th e C h a i r s h o u l d c o n c e r n h i m s e l f w i th . C H A I R P E R S O N : S h e m e a n s y o u w i ll r e v e r t to h e r a n d h e r to m e . 10 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a n k y o u C h a ir. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h r o u g h m e , o f c o u r s e y e s C h a ir. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. A lr ig h t t h a n k y o u . A n d t h e n y o u – y o u h a v e a n a n n e x u r e H J 2 0 t h a t is fo r M c K i n s e y, a m I c o r r e c t ? A t p a g e 9 6 . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s if I m a y ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th e H J W 1 8 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : 20 Tr a n s n e t b u s in e s s u n i ts . W a s a c o n s o l id a ti o n a c r o s s th e d i ff e r e n t H J W 1 9 , 2 0 a n d 2 1 s i m p ly b r e a k t h a t d o w n a c r o s s th e t h r e e d iv is i o n s t h a t a r e r e f le c t e d o n H J W 1 8 b e i n g F r e i g h t R a il , G r o u p C a p i t a l a n d G r o u p S e r v ic e s . I t i s j u s t a b r e a k d o w n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: O k a y. A lr i g h t a n d t h e n y o u d e a l l a s tl y w i th you annexure HJW21. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s a n d th a t is Tr a n s – p a y m e n t s m a d e b y Page 72 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 Tr a n s n e t P o r t Te r m i n a ls . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : To Mc K i n s e y. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: B e c a u s e I a m b l e s s e d C h a ir w it h a v e r y e ffic i e n t ju n io r i f I m a y t h e n g o b a c k s li g h tly a n d I w a n t to g o p a r t ic u l a r ly to t h e r e lo c a t io n c o s ts . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W h a t w e d i d n o t h a v e i n – i n y o u r f il e is w h e n t h e c la i m w a s m a d e f o r r e l o c a ti o n a n d w h e n i t w a s p a i d . 10 Ms Molefe a d v is e d t h a t i f w e g o to Vo l u m e 4 p a g e 1 0 0 8 a n d i f y o u m a y j u s t q u ic k l y c o n fir m M s W a ls h . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : G e tt i n g t h e r e . Ye s I a m t h e r e C h a ir through you. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. Vo lu m e 4 p a g e 1 0 0 8 th a t is t h e C h i n a N o r t h R a il in v o ic e fo r r e lo c a t io n c o s ts . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d w e d o o v e r le a f a t 1 0 0 9 th a t is th e p a y m e n t f o r th e r e l o c a ti o n c o s t? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d i n s o fa r a s B o m b a r d i e r is c o n c e r n e d i f w e g o to 1 0 , 11 s a m e Vo l u m e 4 1 0 11 t h a t i s th e fi r s t in v o ic e o f a n u m b e r o f in v o ic e s is s u e d b y B o m b a r d i e r fo r r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts a n d i t is f o r a n amount of R126 907 402 005.02 okay? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d 5 c e n ts n o … Page 73 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : A n d 5 c e n ts y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I c a n n o t s h o r t c h a n g e Tr a n s n e t in 5 c e n t s t h a n k y o u . A n d fo ll o w i n g is t h e n th e p a y m e n t a d v i c e . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: F o r t h a t a m o u n t a n d th e r e a f t e r f o l lo w s t h e v a r io u s i n v o i c e s i s s u e d b y B o m b a r d i e r f o r t h e Tr a n s – f o r t h e r e l o c a ti o n c o s ts a n d t h e ir c o r r e s p o n d in g p a y m e n t a d v ic e s ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s C h a ir. A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u . Th e n y o u p l e a s e h a v e r e g a r d t o 10 p a r a g r a p h 4 9 a n d y o u w o u l d l ik e to d r a w t h e C h a i r ’s a t t e n t io n ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : To t h e f a c t t h a t … Ye s y o u m a y. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : T h a n k y o u . T h a n k y o u C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u . A s I n o t e d r e g a r d i n g p a y m e n ts p r io r t o J a n u a r y 2 0 1 0 w h ic h a r e – is in c l u d e d in th e i n fo r m a ti o n p r o v i d e d I a m p e r s o n a ll y n o t a w a r e o f a n y in v e s t i g a t io n s i n r e s p e c t t h e r e t o a n d th e o u t c o m e s if a n y a n d t h e in f o r m a ti o n is b e i n g p r o v id e d a s I n o t e d e a r li e r fo r c o m p l e te n e s s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. N o w o n c e a g a in I a m p r o v i d e d w i th t h e d o c u m e n ts th a t a r e n o t p a r t o f y o u r b u n d le . 20 Yo u o ff e r a n n e x u r e s b u t a r e in th e b u n d le s . Tr a n s a c ti o n s a d v is o r s f o r t h e r e c o r d I w o u l d l ik e t o read them in the record? T h e R e g i m e n ts – t h e f ir s t o f t h e R e g i m e n t s in v o ic e s fo r t r a n s a c t io n a d v i s o r y s e r v ic e s a s a t Vo lu m e 5 p a g e 1 0 4 4 t h a t i s t h e a c t u a l in v o ic e , d o y o u c o n fi r m ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : I d o y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And the payment appears at page 1045. Page 74 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O f Vo l u m e 5 . A n d th e r e a f t e r fr o m p a g e s 1 0 4 6 t o 1 0 7 1 a r e a ll R e g i m e n t s i n v o ic e s a n d p a y m e n ts ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a t i s c o r r e c t y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. W e s h a ll r e v e r t – w e w il l r e v e r t to t h e C h a ir a s r e g a r d s th e M c K in s e y is s u e b e c a u s e i t h a s b e e n m is a l l o c a t e d . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : B y Tr a n s n e t . M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Ye s . 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d th e r e is n o d o c u m e n t a ti o n r e g a r d in g M c K in s e y p a y m e n t o f R 11 m i ll io n c u r r e n t ly i n th e fi le s , is t h e r e ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : N o . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. I s t h e r e a n y t h i n g e ls e y o u – a s r e g a r d s t h e s e p a y m e n ts a n d t h e s e t r a n s a c t io n s M s Wa ls h y o u w o u l d l ik e to b r i n g t o t h e C h a ir ’s a t te n ti o n t h a t w e p e r h a p s o m i t t e d t o t a lk a b o u t ? M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : C h a ir t h r o u g h y o u n o t h a n k y o u v e r y m u c h we have covered everything. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d C h a ir u n le s s th e C h a i r h a s a n y q u e s ti o n s f o r Ms W a ls h th a t i s M s W a ls h ’s e v i d e n c e . 20 CHAIRPERSON: Wa ls h . T h a n k y o u v e r y m u c h – v e r y m u c h f o r e v id e n c e M s I f w e n e e d y o u t o c o m e b a c k w e w il l a s k y o u a g a i n a n d I a m s u r e y o u w il l a s s is t . Yo u w i ll o f c o u r s e a s s is t w i th th e p a r t t h a t M s S e ll o m e n ti o n e d in t h e c o u r s e o f y o u r e v id e n c e b u t t h a n k y o u v e r y much and you are excused. M S H E L E N J A N E T WA L S H : Th a n k y o u C h a ir. Page 75 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: w i t n e s s li n e d u p . Th a n k y o u C h a ir. C h a ir w e h a v e a n o t h e r T h is w it n e s s h a s p r e v io u s ly a p p e a r e d b e f o r e y o u C h a ir Mr Fr a n c is C a ll a r d . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H LA P E S E L L O : A n d h e a p p e a r s t o d a y t o d e a l w i t h r e s p o n s e s t o h is R u le 3 .3 ’s . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 10 M r C a l la r d i s a v a i la b le h e is h e r e i n t h e b u il d in g i f I m a y r e q u e s t fi v e m i n u t e s ju s t t o … CHAIRPERSON: Ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Sort out … C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y w e w i ll a d j o u r n fo r fi v e m i n u t e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d o n c e y o u a r e r e a d y w e w ill r e s u m e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: We adjourn. R E G I S T R A R : Al l r i s e . INQUIRY ADJOURNS 20 INQUIRY RESUMES CHAIRPERSON: Are you ready? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e a r e r e a d y t h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: C h a ir b e f o r e I r e q u e s t th a t Mr C a l la r d b e sworn in … Page 76 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e a r e c o n ti n u i n g w i t h t h e Tr a n s n e t e v i d e n c e . T h e C h a ir w il l r e c a ll t h a t i n M a y – I w i ll g e t th e – th e e x a c t d a t e f o r th e C h a ir. W e p r e s e n t e d M r Fr a n c i s Q u e n ti n C a l la r d … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : F o r m e r E n g in e e r a t Tr a n s n e t . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d h e a p p e a r e d fr o m 1 7 M a y b e fo r e y o u . W e p r e s e n t Mr C a l la r d a g a i n t o d a y t o – b e f o r e y o u C h a ir t o d e a l a n d 10 c o m m e n t – t o d e a l w i th a n d c o m m e n t o n th e r e s p o n s e s r e c e iv e d p u r s u a n t to t h e is s u e o f 3 . 3 a r i s i n g fr o m h i s s t a t e m e n t . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: To g iv e t h e C h a ir a s e n s e M r C a l la r d ’s s t a te m e n t p r o d u c e d 3 7 R u l e 3 .3 n o ti c e s w h ic h w e r e d ir e c te d t o fir s t ly in d i v i d u a ls d ir e c t ly i m p li c a t e d b y h is e v i d e n c e , m e m b e r s o f t h e B o a r d , t h e B i d A d j u d ic a ti o n C o m m i t t e e a n d th e F in a n c e Te a m th a t n e g o t i a t e d the 1064. W e i d e n t if i e d t h e m e m b e r s o f e a c h o f t h o s e b o d i e s a n d s e r v e d t h e m w i th n o ti c e s a s w e l l a s c o m p a n i e s o r d i ffe r e n t e n ti ti e s th a t a r e i m p lic a t e d . That gave us a total of 37 Rule 3.3. 20 received two responses to these 3 .3 s and In r e s p o n s e w e h a v e in p a r tic u la r fr o m M r Yo u s u f L a h e r w h o is o n e o f t h e i m p l ic a t e d p e r s o n s - p e r s o n s r e fe r r e d t o Mr Yu s u f M o h a m e d . T h e o th e r 3 5 h a v e n e i th e r r e s p o n d e d n o r p r o v id e d a v e r s i o n . M r Yo u s u f … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Page 77 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: provided versions Mr Callard made. Mr Callard. in M r Yo u s u f L a h e r a n d b o t h Mr M o h a m e d h a v e response to the s p e c if ic a ll e g a t io n s th a t N e i t h e r o f t h e m h a v e a p p l ie d to c r o s s - e x a m in e S o w e c a ll e d Mr C a ll a r d h e r e t o d a y to c o m e t o d e a l o n r e c o r d w i t h w h a t Mr L a h e r a n d M r M o h a m e d s a y s i n r e g a r d to t h e a l le g a ti o n s h e h a d m a d e c o n c e r n i n g t h e m . W it h … C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, th a n k y o u . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I n t h a t c o n t e x t C h a ir i f t h e n I m a y … C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u fo r c o m i n g b a c k M r C a ll a r d . 10 MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a n k y o u . P l e a s e a d m i n is t e r t h e o a t h o r a ff ir m a ti o n . R E G I S T R A R : P le a s e s t a te y o u r fu ll n a m e s f o r th e r e c o r d . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Fr a n c i s Q u e n t in C a l la r d . REGISTRAR: D o y o u h a v e a n y o b j e c t io n w i th t a k i n g t h e p r e s c r i b e d oath? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: No. REGISTRAR: 20 D o y o u c o n s i d e r t h e o a th t o b e b i n d in g o n y o u r conscience? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: I do. R E G I S T R A R : D o y o u s w e a r t h a t t h e e v id e n c e y o u w i ll g iv e w i ll b e t h e tr u th , t h e w h o le tr u t h a n d n o t h i n g b u t th e tr u t h if s o p l e a s e r a i s e y o u r r ig h t h a n d a n d s a y s o h e l p m e G o d . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: So help me God. Page 78 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : ( d u ly s w or n , s t a t e s ) REGISTRAR: Thank you. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. C h a ir y o u s h o u l d h a v e t h e s t a te m e n t a n d a n n e x u r e s o f M r C a l l a r d p r e v io u s ly s u b m it t e d . These w e r e s u b m i t te d in t o a n d a c c e p t e d in t o e v i d e n c e a s E X H I B I T B B 4 A a n d BB4B. We would now l ik e to hand up the s ta t e m e n ts by M r Yo u s u f L a h e r a n d b y M r M o h a m e d . W e h a v e t a k e n t h e l i b e r t y o f m a r k i n g t h e m C h a ir a s B B 4 F f o r M r Yo u s u f L a h e r a n d B B 4 G f o r M r Yu s u f M o h a m e d . 10 CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e C h a i r w il l n o t e i n s o fa r a s M r Yo u s u f L a h e r is c o n c e r n e d t h a t t h e r e a r e t w o s t a te m e n ts w i t h a n n e x u r e s . Th e r e a s o n f o r th a t i s b e f o r e w e r e c e iv e d a n d f i n a lis e d Mr C a l la r d ’s s ta t e m e n t M r L a h e r h a d p r o v i d e d a – a w i t n e s s s t a te m e n t t o th e C o m m is s i o n . W h e n M r C a l l a r d ’s s ta t e m e n t a n d e v id e n c e w a s r e c e i v e d w e t h e n is s u e d a 3 .3 f o r M r L a h e r a n d h e t h e n s u b s e q u e n tl y f il e d a n o t h e r s t a te m e n t i n r e s p o n s e t h e r e t o . B B 4 F t h e a r c h l e v e r fil e s t h e r e f o r e c o n ta in s b o t h t h e s e s t a te m e n ts d iv id e d i n t o B B 4 F 1 a n d B B 4 F 2 a n d t h e r e – t h e r e s h o u l d b e 20 a d iv i d e r i n – i n t h e f il e a n d t h o s e w il l b e t h e s ta t e m e n ts t h a t w e h a v e r e c e i v e d fr o m M r Yo u s u f L a h e r C h a ir. We have provided a separate bundle. T h e l a s t t i m e I c a ll e d i t a b la c k f o l d e r a n d t h e C h a ir c o r r e c t e d m e . A p la s t ic f o l d e r c o n t a i n i n g Mr Yu s u f M o h a m e d ’s s t a te m e n t . C H A I R P E R S O N : W a s t h e c o r r e c ti o n n o t a b o u t th e c o l o u r ? Page 79 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : W a s t h e c o r r e c ti o n a b o u t th e c o l o u r ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W h a t is t h e q u e s t io n a b o u t t h e … ? C H A I R P E R S O N : W a s t h e c o r r e c ti o n a b o u t th e c o l o u r ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e c o r r e c t i o n d e fi n i t e ly w a s a b o u t th e c o l o u r C h a ir. I – I o p t e d f o r t h e c o lo u r o f th e b a c k o f t h a t f o ld e r w h ic h w a s a c e r t a i n c o l o u r a n d t h e C h a ir p o in t e d o u t th a t t h e fr o n t is a c l e a r p l a s ti c . So I … CHAIRPERSON: Ja. 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I s h a l l n o t c o m m i t m y s e lf w i th r e g a r d s colours. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d f o r M r Yu s u f M o h a m e d is e x h i b i t – I h a v e t a k e n t h e l i b e r t y o f m a r k in g E X H I B I T B B 4 G . W i t h y o u r p e r m is s io n th e n C h a ir i f y o u m a y a c c e p t t h e m a s m a r k e d ? C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I h a v e h a n d e d u p th e m b o th t o y o u . CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : N o w th e y a r e t h e fir s t , s e c o n d a n d th ir d s u p p le m e n t – s u p p l e m e n t a r y s t a t e m e n ts o f M r C a ll a r d . T h e r e is t h a t fi le . That r e l a t e s to s o m e t h i n g t h a t h a s a lr e a d y b e e n … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: M y a p o lo g ie s C h a ir. I f o r g o t to m e n t i o n t h a t g o e s w i t h B B 1 4 A . B - t h e t w o a r c h le v e r f i le s … CHAIRPERSON: Hm. Page 80 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: C , D a n d E a r e i n t h a t li t tl e fo l d e r a n d a l l t h o s e w e r e s u b m i t te d d u r i n g t h e t e s ti m o n y o f M r C a ll a r d p r e v i o u s l y. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. L e t u s - l e t u s g e t th is r ig h t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h is o n e ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s s ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : H a s t h i s b e i n g e n te r e d a l r e a d y ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I t h a s a lr e a d y b e e n e n te r e d in t o e v i d e n c e . I t is Mr C a l la r d ’s o r i g in a l s u p p l e m e n ta r y s ta t e m e n t . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : O h . T h is is ju s t f o r c o n v e n i e n c e ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I t g o e s t o g e t h e r w i t h t h e tw o a r c h l e v e r fi l e s f o r Mr C a ll a r d . S o … CHAIRPERSON: Oh. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a t w e r e o n t h e C h a ir ’s d e s k a lr e a d y. C H A I R P E R S O N : O h , y e s o k a y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : A l l o f t h a t h a s b e e n e n t e r e d a lr e a d y ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A ll t h a t h a s b e e n e n t e r e d i n t o e v i d e n c e . CHAIRPERSON: 20 Okay and th e n there is the fi le r e l a ti n g to M r Yu s u f M o h a m e d – E X H I B I T B B 4 G ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h a t i s w h a t w e p r o p o s e i t b e m a r k e d C h a ir. T h a t is Mr Yu s u f M o h a m e d ’s s ta t e m e n t t o g e th e r w i t h i ts a n n e x u r e s . CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me. T h e f il e c o n ta in i n g th e s ta t e m e n t o f M r Yu s u f M o h a m e d a n d a n n e x u r e s w i ll b e m a r k e d E X H I B I T B B 4 G a n d t h e n th e r e i s t h i s l e v e r a r c h f il e … Page 81 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: The lever arch … C H A I R P E R S O N : Fo r M r L a h e r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : D i d y o u s a y it h a s tw o s t a te m e n ts … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Indeed. C H A I R P E R S O N : O f h is p l u s a n n e x u r e s ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: It has got two s t a te m e n ts each w it h annexures. C H A I R P E R S O N : E a c h w i th a n n e x u r e s , j a . 10 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t t h e y a r e a l l i n th is l e v e r a r c h fi le ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Th e y a r e a ll i n t h a t l e v e r a r c h fil e a n d w e – w e p r o p o s e t h a t th e f ir s t s ta t e m e n t a s a p p e a r in y o u r fi le C h a i r b e m a r k e d B B 4 F 1 a n d th e n e x t o n e s ta t e m e n t b e F 2 . CHAIRPERSON: Where is the second one? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I f t h e C h a ir g o e s f u r t h e r t h e r e is a b i n d – t h e r e i s a d i v i d e r. CHAIRPERSON: Number? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N o , n o . W h a t t h e C h a ir h a s is a fi l e w i t h th e 20 fir s t s ta t e m e n t … CHAIRPERSON: Hm. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And … C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t is a s t a t e m e n t t h a t g o e s u p t o p a g e 2 0 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: That goes up to page 20 … CHAIRPERSON: Ja. Page 82 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d i t w i ll r u n u n ti l p a g e 2 - 7 - 9 it i s – it i s fi n a l a n n e x u r e . T h a t is t h e f ir s t s t a t e m e n t d a t e d 1 5 A p r i l 2 0 1 9 . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . S o t h o s e a r e i ts a n n e x u r e s ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d a t – t h e r e s h o u ld b e a d iv i d e r th e r e a n d t h e r e f o l lo w in g s t a r t in g w i ll b e M r Yo u s u f L a h e r ’s s ta t e m e n t o f J u n e w h ic h o n c e a g a in s t a r ts fr o m p a g e 1 . 10 CHAIRPERSON: W e ll s h o u l d y o u n o t – s h o u ld t h i s d iv id e r b e w r i t t e n something M r L a h e r ’s l ik e second s t a te m e n t or s u p p le m e n t a r y s t a te m e n t o r w h a te v e r i t is ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e – w e tr y C h a ir. W e c a ll e d it t h e E X H I B I T B B 4 F 2 r ig h t . T h e c o v e r i n g p a g e c a l ls i t a s t a t e m e n t a n d a n n e x u r e s in r e s p o n s e t o R u l e 3 .3 N o t ic e . C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t y o u s e e a ll a l o n g w h e n w e h a v e a l e v e r a r c h w e g iv e a n e x h i b it n u m b e r t o t h e w h o le le v e r a r c h fi le . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : N o w w e s a i d t h is is E X H I B I T B B 4 F … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t th a t E X H I B I T B B 4 F r e l a te s t o – th e n y o u h a v e g o t F21 … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d t h is is F. 2 … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Point 2. C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t i t is c o n fu s i n g . O h i t i s - w h y c o u l d y o u n o t … ? Page 83 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e – w e ( in t e r v e n e s ) . CHAIRPERSON: Why could you not just have it as BB4F and the – the c o n te n ts c a n t h e n r e la t e – in d ic a t e t h a t th e r e a r e t w o s t a t e m e n t s ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: We … C H A I R P E R S O N : S o i t i s o n e e x h ib i t … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t i t h a s g o t t w o s ta t e m e n t s a n d e a c h s t a t e m e n t h a s g o t it s o w n a n n e x u r e s a n d t h e i n d e x … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S h o w s th a t . 10 C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e in d e x s h o w s - s h o w s th a t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e – w e a r e h a p p y to d o s o C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A s t h e f il e c u r r e n tl y s ta n d s i t i s c o r r e c tl y … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : M a r k e d t h e n B B 4 F. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s j u s t F4 , j a . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o – a n d t h a t is w h a t th e s p i n e r e a d s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , ja . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 20 T h e n i n t h e i n d e x w e w il l i n d ic a t e t h a t t h e r e a r e a c t u a l ly tw o s t a te m e n ts e a c h w it h - w i t h a n n e x u r e s . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , ja . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e o n e s h a ll b e F … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: One and the other F2. CHAIRPERSON: Ye s a n d – a n d f o r c o n v e n i e n c e w h e r e y o u h a v e t h a t Page 84 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 d iv i d e r b e fo r e t h e s e c o n d s ta t e m e n t … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Yo u c o u ld j u s t a ls o w r i t e – y o u k n o w – s e c o n d s t a te m e n t … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S e c o n d s ta t e m e n t . C H A I R P E R S O N : O r s o m e t h i n g li k e t h a t , j a . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e w i ll d o s o C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: T h e n – t h e n a ll o n e n e e d s is to k n o w t h a t o n e is d e a li n g w it h E X H I B I T B B 4 F a n d i f o n e w a n ts to f in d th e fi r s t s ta t e m e n t 10 it is a t p a g e 1 . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And … C H A I R P E R S O N : I f o n e w a n ts t o f in d t h e s e c o n d s t a t e m e n t i t i s a t p a g e 2 w h a te v e r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e w i ll d o s o C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y, a lr ig h t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A t le a s t fo r n o w … C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W e a ll o c a t e t o M r Yo u s u f L a h e r ’s s ta t e m e n ts B B 4 F. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e l e v e r a r c h fi l e c o n t a i n i n g Mr Yo u s u f Is m a e l – I a m s o r r y. A m I o n t h e r i g h t … ? Page 85 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : M r Yo u s u f Is m a e l L a h e r, y e s . CHAIRPERSON: Oh. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e y a r e b o th M r Yu s u f . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e y a r e b o t h Yu s u f . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : S o t h a t i s w h a t is c o n f u s in g m e . Th e l e v e r a r c h f il e c o n ta in i n g t h e t w o s ta t e m e n ts o f Mr Yo u s u f Is m a e l L a h e r w i ll b e m a r k e d E X H I B I T B B 4 F. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. 10 CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I th in k I h a v e h a n d e d in a ll th e d o c u m e n ta t io n r e q u ir e d t o d e a l w i t h C a ll a r d t o d a y. provided with both the Now Mr Callard you have been s ta t e m e n ts by Mr Yo u s u f L a h e r and M r Yu s u f M o h a m e d in r e s p o n s e t o a l le g a ti o n s y o u m a d e a g a i n s t t h e m i n y o u r o r i g i n a l s t a te m e n t m a r k e d B B 4 A . Is t h a t s o ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. I h a v e c o n s i d e r e d b o t h s t a te m e n ts a n d I s u g g e s t th a t w e d e a l f ir s t ly w i t h t h e o n e s e t w h ic h is r e l a ti n g to M r L a h e r a n d th e r e a f t e r w e w il l t u r n o u r a tt e n ti o n t o t h e s t a te m e n t o f 20 M r Yu s u f M o h a m e d . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Fi n e . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N o w i n s o fa r a s M r Yo u s u f L a h e r i s c o n c e r n e d h is s t a te m e n t i n r e s p o n s e t o a R u l e 3 . 3 is s u e d t o h i m f o ll o w i n g r e c e i p t o f y o u r s t a t e m e n t I id e n t i fy fi v e is s u e s th a t h e t a k e s i s s u e w i t h y o u a n d I h a v e li s t e d t h e m i n t h is m a n n e r o r i d e n t i fi e d t h e m a s s u c h . H e t a k e s Page 86 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 is s u e s w i t h t h e – w h a t y o u s a y i n r e l a ti o n t o th e i n c r e a s e o f t h e E s ti m a t e d To t a l C o s t in r e s p e c t o f t h e 1 0 0 lo c o m o t iv e s . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e s e c o n d o n e i s th e f o r e i g n e x c h a n g e is s u e in r e s p e c t o f t h e 1 0 0 tr a n s a c t i o n . T h e u s e o f Ye n a n d D o ll a r o r Ye n v e r s u s D o l la r. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h e t h ir d is w h a t y o u s ta t e a b o u t a d v a n c e p a y m e n t s m a d e b y Tr a n s n e t b o th i n r e s p e c t o f t h e 1 0 0 l o c o m o tiv e 10 tr a n s a c ti o n a n d 1 0 6 4 tr a n s a c t i o n . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: H e t h e n d e a ls w i t h t h e 1 0 6 4 b u s i n e s s c a s e a n d c la i m s y o u m a d e i n r e s p e c t t h e r e t o t h a t i m p a c t h i m a n d l a s t ly h e d e a ls w i t h th e q u e s t i o n o f t h e n e g o t ia t io n s p r e a d s h e e ts r e l a ti n g t o t h e 1 0 6 4 n e g o t ia t io n p r o c e s s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: S o t h o s e a r e t h e fi v e is s u e s t h a t I h a v e id e n t i fi e d t h a t s p e c i fic a lly r e la t e to y o u i n M r L a h e r ’s s t a te m e n t … M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And I propose to deal with them under those s p e c i f ic h e a d in g s . S o i f w e – w e m a y t h e n tu r n t o t h e f ir s t w h i c h is t h e in c r e a s e o f t h e E T C r e l a ti n g to t h e 1 0 0 . In o r d e r f o r u s t o h a v e a p p r o p r i a t e c o n t e x t I s u g g e s t p e r h a p s t h a t w e s ta r t w it h y o u r o w n s t a te m e n t B B 4 A a n d w e tu r n t o t h a t p a r t w h e r e y o u d e a l w i t h t h i s in c r e a s e o f th e E T C a n d t h a t y o u d o a t C h a ir B B 4 A p a g e 1 5 a n d t h a t is Page 87 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 done at pages 64 and 66 – ag – my apologies. Paragraphs 64/66 page 15. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s I h a v e g o t i t . T h a n k y o u . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Yo u in t h o s e p a r a g r a p h s s u m m i n g u p th e – th e is s u e r e a l ly y o u m a k e is : “ T h e r e w a s a n i n c r e a s e in t h e e s t i m a t e d t o t a l c o s t o f t h e a c q u is i ti o n o f t h e 1 0 0 lo c o m o t iv e s fr o m 3 . 8 7 1 b i ll io n to 4 .8 b i ll i o n . ” MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct. 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: That you say at 64. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A t 6 6 y o u th e n s a y – y o u e x p r e s s a v ie w th a t : “ T h e i n c r e a s e w a s e x c e s s i v e a n d i t w a s d i ff ic u l t t o ju s t i fy. ” MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I f t h e n w e c o u l d t u r n t o M r L a h e r ’s s t a te m e n t – s e c o n d s t a t e m e n t w h i c h is th e d ir e c t r e s p o n s e a n d Mr L a h e r d e a ls w i t h y o u r – w h a t y o u s t a t e t h e r e i n v a r io u s p a r a g r a p h s . He does so s t a r ti n g a t p a r a g r a p h 2 6 . 20 M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : S o r r y. P a r a g r a p h ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : 2 6 o f h is s t a t e m e n t. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: 26? Ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And that would be at page 5 of … M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Fiv e ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Fi v e of h is second Page 88 of 104 statement to your 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 r e s p o n s e . S o h e d e a ls w i th t h a t fr o m p a r a g r a p h 2 6 i n t o 2 7 , 2 8 , 3 1 , 3 2 , 36 and 38. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Yo u h a v e h a d o p p o r t u n i ty t o a p p ly y o u r m i n d t o w h a t M r L a h e r s ta t e s ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: And if – if you could deal – a comment to M r L a h e r ’s r e s p o n s e s . CHAIRPERSON: 10 W e l l e i th e r y o u o r M r C a ll a r d m u s t j u s t s a y w h a t M r L a h e r ’s … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e g is t o f t h e p o in ts . CHAIRPERSON: P o i n ts a r e – r e s p o n s e s a r e f ir s t o r r e s p o n s e b e f o r e d e a li n g w it h i t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h e n I c a n d o th a t . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I have summarised them. I t h i n k it w i ll b e e a s i e r a n d q u ic k e r f o r m e t o d o s o . CHAIRPERSON: Ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 20 In t h e p a r a g r a p h s I h a v e m e n t io n e d w h ic h i s 2 6 t o 2 8 , 3 1 , 3 2 , 3 6 a n d 3 8 t h is is w h a t w e a r e a b l e to e x tr a c t fr o m M r L a h e r ’s s t a te m e n t . F ir s t ly h e d o e s n o t d e n y th a t t h e i n c r e a s e o f a b i ll io n i n t h e E T C w a s e x c e s s iv e . T h e r e is n o t d i r e c t d e n ia l . He d e m o n s t r a t e s h o w t h a t i n c r e a s e o f o n e b i ll io n w a s a r r iv e d a t w i t h r e fe r e n c e t o a p a r ti c u la r a n n e x u r e h e h a s a d d e d t o h i s s t a t e m e n t a n d i n h is c a lc u l a ti o n h e a r r iv e s a t a f ig u r e o f 4 1 m il li o n p e r l o c o m o tiv e w h ic h Page 89 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 w o u ld tr a n s l a t e t o 4 . 1 b i lli o n . T h e n u m b e r w e a r e c h a s in g s o t o s p e a k is 4 . 8 b il li o n . He in d i c a t e s t h a t M r M o l e fe a n d M r S in g h h a d b e e n i n c h a r g e o f t h e n e g o ti a ti o n s w i th – r e g a r d i n g t h e c o s t o f t h e s e lo c o m o t iv e s a n d th is i s fr o m C N – C N R – C S R – th e 1 0 0 . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : T h e s e w e r e fr o m C S R . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : C S R , th a n k y o u . I t e n d t o c o n f u s e t h e m . M y a p o lo g i e s ; a n d a t 2 7 h e i n d ic a t e s t o th e b e s t o f h is k n o w l e d g e C S R h a d r e q u e s t e d a p r ic e o f 4 9 m il li o n p e r lo c o m o tiv e w h ic h b r in g s u s t o 4 . 9 10 b i ll io n f o r t h e 1 0 a n d t h e C h a ir p e r s o n a t t h e t i m e p it c h e d t h e p r ic e a t 3 8 . 5 m ill i o n a n d a t 2 8 h e th e n d e a ls w i t h w h a t tr a n s p ir e d fr o m th a t n e g o ti a ti o n a n d h e s a y s t h a t t h e p a r ti e s a g r e e d a t 4 4 m i ll io n p e r lo c o m o t iv e w h i c h t a k e s u s to 4 .8 b i ll io n . H e t h e n s p e a k s to t h e a n a ly s is … C H A I R P E R S O N : W e l l y o u – y o u k n o w b e t t e r w h a t y o u h a v e i n fr o n t o f you … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : B u t I – I s u g g e s t t h a t y o u t a k e i t in m a n a g e a b l e … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: In manageable bites? 20 CHAIRPERSON: Ja, ja bites and see what – what he says and let us h e a r w h a t M r C a l l a r d ’s r e s p o n s e is . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A lr ig h t . C H A I R P E R S O N : T h e n – t h e n I w i ll fo ll o w. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Yo u w il l f o l l o w b e t te r ? CHAIRPERSON: Ja. Page 90 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: I a m h a p p y t o C h a ir. If I r e f e r y o u t h e n M r C a l l a r d t o p a g e 4 o f Mr Yo u s u f L a h e r ’s r e s p o n s e t o y o u r 3 .3 . He h a s g o t a h e a d i n g th e r e : “ P e r t in e n t F a c ts R e la t in g t o t h e 1 0 0 L o c o m o ti v e Deal”. H e p r o v id e s s o m e f a c ts . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : B u t I th in k w e s h o u l d tu r n o u r a t t e n t io n t o h is p a r a g r a p h 2 6 . A t 2 6 h e i n d ic a te s th a t h e w a s r e q u e s t e d to p r e p a r e a 10 r e a s o n a b i li ty c a lc u l a ti o n . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W h ic h h e d i d … M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : W h ic h h e d i d . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d w h ic h r e f le c t e d a t Y L 2 4 . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: going to request your Now if we may turn to YL24 and then I am comment thereon. I a p o l o g is e C h a ir. U n f o r t u n a t e ly m y … MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: YL24. 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Fi le d o e s n o t h a v e t a b s t h i s t i m e . T h a t w o u ld be at page 45 … MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Page 45. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Of the second statement. s t a te m e n t C h a ir a f t e r th e d iv i d e r. The second The one that we call Laher second s t a te m e n t . Page 91 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d w h a t p a g e w o u l d th a t b e ? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Page … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: It is page 45. CHAIRPERSON: Oh. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Each – each statement has i ts own numbering. CHAIRPERSON: Oh. I am looking for the … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o it is n o t a c o n ti n u a t io n . C H A I R P E R S O N : P a g i n a t io n n u m b e r. 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W h a t y o u a r e l o o k i n g fo r is t h e ta b m a r k e d two … CHAIRPERSON: Huh-uh. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h a t s e p a r a te s t h e t w o s t a te m e n ts . I t is t h e b i g ta b C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : I – I s a w – I s a w i t e a r l ie r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: I s e e m t o s tr u g g l e t o s e e i t n o w. T h a t is i n B B 4 A hey? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : C h a ir. 20 C H A I R P E R S O N : T h a t is i n B B 4 A ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : It is B B 4 F. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N o B B 4 F. CHAIRPERSON: Oh. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: J a , a p o l o g i e s C h a ir. s u b m i tt e d t h is m o r n i n g . Page 92 of 104 BB4F the one we 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : N o w t h e r e w o u l d b e a b i g d iv i d e r … CHAIRPERSON: Ja. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I n d ic a ti n g t w o . T h a t is th e s e c o n d s t a te m e n t w h ic h o f c o u r s e w e s h a l l r e n a m e t h a t d iv i d e r. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . O k a y. Yo u s a id p a g e ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: We are now at page 45. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. T h a n k y o u . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d a t p a g e 4 5 C h a ir i s A n n e x u r e Y L 2 4 w h ic h 10 a t p a r a g r a p h 2 6 o f h i s s ta t e m e n t M r L a h e r s a y s : “ I t w a s t h e r e s u l t o f a r e a s o n a b i li ty c a l c u l a ti o n h e u n d e r t o o k a t th e r e q u e s t o f M r S in g h . ” A n d t h e n I w i ll i n v i te y o u r c o m m e n t b o t h o n w h a t h e s t a t e s a t p a r a g r a p h 2 6 h o w t h a t c a m e a b o u t a n d th e c o n t e n t o f Y L 2 4 i ts e l f . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: C e r t a in ly. W e l l a s Mr L a h e r s a y s t h a t M r Si n g h r e q u e s te d t h a t h e p e r s o n a l ly p r e p a r e a r e a s o n a b il i ty c a l c u l a ti o n o n th e e x p e c t e d p r i c e o f t h e 2 0 E t h a t w a s p u r c h a s e d fr o m C S R in O c to b e r 2 0 1 2 a d ju s ti n g f o r t h e 2 0 1 2 p r ic e fo r i n fl a ti o n , f o r e x m o v e m e n ts a n d a n y o t h e r i t e ms t h a t w o u l d i m p a c t th e p r i c e . H e a r r iv e s 20 a t a c a l c u l a t e d f i g u r e o f a p p r o x i m a t e l y 4 4 m il li o n . I f w e m a y n o w l o o k a t p a g e 4 5 . H e g i v e s a n a n a l y s is o f h o w h e a r r iv e d a t th a t p r ic e . F ir s t ly … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d j u s t f o r t h e r e c o r d – I a p o l o g is e . P a g e 4 5 is A n n e x u r e Y L 2 4 . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : It is A n n e x u r e Y L 2 4 … Page 93 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : A n d it i s p a g e 4 5 … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thank you. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Of the bundle. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: I n – in t h e f ir s t b l o c k t h e – t h e p a g e ’s h e a d i n g : “ 1 0 0 2 0 E E le c tr ic s Pr ic e R e c a l c u l a t i o n ” A n d j u s t b e l o w t h a t o n th e r i g h t h a n d s i d e it h a s Y L . I t a k e i t 10 t h a t s t a n d s f o r Yo u s u f L a h e r r e c a lc u la t io n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: H e t h e n p u ts th is – s o m e fi r s t fi g u r e s i n a – in a b l o c k w h ic h h e i n d ic a te s f ir s t th e R a n d p o r t io n o f t h e lo c o m o t iv e . T h e n h e h a s a U S p o r t i o n o f $ 1 9 5 0 0 0 0 . T h e n h e h a s tw o fi g u r e s . O n e a r a t e u s e d b y C S R 7 .4 a n d I i n t e r p r e t t h is a s t h a t w a s t h e D o l la r r a t e u s e d b y C S R i n th e ir c a l c u la ti o n a n d t h e n h e h a s a r a t e a t t h e d a te o f s i g n a t u r e o f 2 2 O c to b e r 2 0 1 2 a t 8 . 6 3 5 . I t i s m y u n d e r s t a n d in g t h a t t h i s r e l a te s to a c o m m e n t t h a t h e m a d e in – i n h i s s t a t e m e n t w h e r e b e li e v e d t h a t th e r a t e o f e x c h a n g e 20 w a s e x c e s s iv e a n d i n t h a t I w o u l d l ik e t o p o i n t o u t to it e m 3 1 o f h is s t a te m e n t . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e w i ll g e t t o 3 1 . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : C e r t a i n ly. R i g h t , t h a n k y o u . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : L e t u s ju s t d e a l w it h Y L 2 4 , t h a n k y o u . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: And from that he calculates at the Page 94 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 la s t l in e in t h a t b l o c k a c a lc u l a te d e x c h a n g e r a te i m p a c t . H e g iv e s u s a b a s e p r ic e o f t h e l o c o m o t iv e a n d t h e n h e a d d s v a r io u s e l e m e n t s , e x c h a n g e r a t e , e s c a la t io n o n th e D o l l a r p o r ti o n , e s c a la t i o n o n th e S o u th A fr ic a n p o r t i o n , a d d i t io n a l s e t u p c o s ts , h e d g i n g c o s t s . H e a d d s d u t y, a p r ic e e x c lu d in g o p t io n s . H e t h e n a d d s o p t io n s o f p n e u m a ti c a ll y c o n tr o l le d b r a k in g a n d W ir e D is tr i b u te d P o w e r t h a t i s t h e W D T a n d h e c o m e s t o a p r i c e in c l u d i n g o p ti o n s o f 4 1 0 9 9 7 3 3 . S o i t is 4 1 . 1 m i ll i o n to a ll i n t e n t s a n d purposes. May – and … 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: So – yes please go on. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : It w o u ld b e m y u n d e r s t a n d in g … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: T h a t t h is w o u l d b e t h e t o ta l p r ic e o f a l o c o m o t iv e f i t f o r p u r p o s e r e a d y f o r u s e . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: S o w h e n y o u s a y fi t f o r p u r p o s e i n la y m a n ’s t e r m s w o u l d b e if a t th e ti m e Tr a n s n e t p a i d 4 1 m il li o n a n d g e ts t h e lo c o m o t iv e i t is r e a d y to r u n o n th e r a i ls ? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Th a t is c o r r e c t b e c a u s e th e b a s e p r i c e o f t h e l o c o m o ti v e c e r t a i n ly w h ic h w e h a d i n th e b u s i n e s s c a s e e x 20 – i n c lu d e d t h e n e c e s s a r y o p ti o n s o v e r a n d a b o v e th e m a n u f a c t u r e r s o ffe r e d p r ic e th a t w o u l d b e r e q u ir e d t o r e n d e r a l o c o m o t iv e f it f o r purpose. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A n d n o w w it h r e f e r e n c e t o Y L 2 4 y o u – d o – i s t h a t – i s i t y o u r in t e r p r e ta t io n o r d o y o u s u p p o r t M r L a h e r ’s v i e w th a t h e a r r iv e d a t t h e 4 1 m i ll io n p e r lo c o m o t iv e h a v in g ta k e n i n t o c o n s i d e r a ti o n Page 95 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 e s c a l a t io n for in f la t io n and fo r e i g n exchange fl u c t u a ti o n s fr o m O c t o b e r 2 0 1 2 t o F e b r u a r y 2 0 1 4 a d j u s t e d f o r v a r ia t io n s f o r d e s i g n , a d d it i o n a l s t e e l c o s t s , s e t u p c o s ts , h e d g i n g c o s ts , d u ti e s a n d o p t i o n s . Ta k i n g a ll t h o s e c o s ts i n to c o n s i d e r a t io n h e a r r i v e s a t a f i n a l fi g u r e . To t a l c o s t t o Tr a n s n e t … M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : C o r r e c t i t is m y … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O f 4 1 m i ll io n . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: U n d e r s t a n d i n g o f h i s c a lc u l a ti o n s , yes. 10 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: If the lo c o m o t iv e s are a c q u ir e d by February 2014? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d th a t h e s t a te s a t 2 6 . S o y o u a r e in a g r e e m e n t w i th h i m – w i t h th e m a n n e r o f c a lc u la t io n th e r e ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : M a n n e r o f c a lc u l a ti o n , y e s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d is t h a t a n – a c o r r e c t a p p r o a c h i n y o u r v ie w to c a l c u la t in g a c o s t o f a c q u i s i ti o n o f - o f s u c h l o c o m o ti v e o v e r a p e r i o d o f ti m e a s h a p p e n e d in t h i s c a s e ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : I a g r e e w i th t h e m e t h o d o lo g y. 20 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y. A t p a r a g r a p h 2 7 h e i n d i c a t e s t h a t t h e r e w e r e n e g o ti a ti o n s h e l d b e tw e e n Tr a n s n e t a n d C S R . N o w h e i n f o r m s u s t h a t a t t h e ti m e C S R r e q u e s t e d 4 9 m il li o n a n d th e C h a ir p e r s o n p i tc h e d the price as 38. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Now he does say: Page 96 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 “ D u r i n g h is in v o lv e m e n t i n t h e n e g o t i a t i o n p r o c e s s . N o d e c i s i o n s w e r e t a k e n a t t h e m e e ti n g a n d t h e fi n a l p r ic e t h a t w a s a g r e e d t o w a s n o t a g r e e d t o in t h e m e e ti n g w h i c h I w a s i n v o l v e d . ” H e s a y s th a t a t 2 7 . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Agreed, yes. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: He however informs us at paragraph 28 that: “ S u b s e q u e n tly t h e r e t o a d a y o r s o la t e r Mr S i n g h in f o r m e d h i m - M r L a h e r – t h a t M r B r i a n M o l e fe h a d 10 a g r e e d w i th C S R t h a t Tr a n s n e t w i ll a c q u ir e th e lo c o m o t iv e s a t 4 4 m i ll i o n p e r l o c o m o tiv e . . . ” M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: “ … a n d t h a t th e c o n tr a c t m u s t b e d r a f t e d a c c o r d i n g ly. ” MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: That is … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Do you have …? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: I looked at his statement a c c o r d i n g l y, y e s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . D o y o u h a v e a n y c o m m e n t o n – o n th o s e 20 two paragraphs? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Ye s I h a v e o n e c o m m e n t a n d in t h a t I w o u l d l ik e t o r e fe r t o Mr L a h e r ’s o r i g in a l fi r s t s t a t e m e n t … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L R D : W h ic h m a y b e f o u n d o n – i n s u p p o r t a n d a m p l i fic a ti o n o f th a t h is fir s t s t a t e m e n t w o u l d b e h is p a r a g r a p h 2 8 Page 97 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a t is o u r F F4 … MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Hm. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: F1 for the record. B B 4 F 1 , f ir s t s t a t e m e n t i n that FF4. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : It is p a g e 1 4 o f h is … ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 1-4. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : 1 - 4 o f h is s t a t e m e n t B B F – B B 4 F. 1 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . 10 M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : A n d I w o u ld r e a d v e r b a t i m fr o m h is … CAIRPERSON: Hm. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Paragraph 54. C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y. I a m s o r r y. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Ja. C H A I R P E R S O N : S h o u ld w e n o t d r o p th e p o i n t o n e b e c a u s e la t e r o n w e – w e w i ll n o t h a v e p o i n t o n e a n d p o i n t t w o f o r t h e t r a n s c r i p t ? ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: S o w e s h o u l d m a k e r e fe r e n c e t h e r e t o f ir s t s t a te m e n t . 20 CHAIRPERSON: J a , j a . W e l l y o u s h o u ld ju s t s a y fi r s t s t a te m e n t a n d second statement. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : S o t h a t i t w il l n o t b e c o n f u s i n g , j a . O k a y. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: tr a n s c r ip t io n T h e n p e r h a p s f o r – fo r t h e p u r p o s e o f t h e M r C a ll a r d h a s now referred us Page 98 of 104 to B B 4 F w h ic h i s 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M r Yo u s u f L a h e r ’s s t a te m e n t a n d i n p a r t ic u la r t o t h e f ir s t s t a t e m e n t . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: The first statement. Correct. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: A n d in t h i s r e g a r d y o u w a n te d u s t o tu r n t o p a g e 1 4 o f t h a t fi r s t s t a t e m e n t . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: And his paragraph 54. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e a r e a t p a r a g r a p h 5 4 . Ye s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: I would read verbatim from his paragraph. “ T h e i m p r e s s io n I g a i n e d d u r in g t h e n e g o t ia t io n s 10 w a s t h a t t h e C h a ir p e r s o n ’s n e g o t i a t i o n t a c ti c w a s v e r y m u c h f o c u s e d o n t h e o v e r a l l p r ic e a n d n o t f o c u s e d o n th e d e t a i le d e le m e n t s t h a t m a d e u p t h e p r i c e s u c h a s f o r e x a m p l e e s c a la t io n , b a t c h p r ic i n g e tc e t e r a . E v e n t h o u g h t h e d e t a il e d e l e m e n t s m a y h a v e b e e n s p o k e n a b o u t a t v a r i o u s ti m e s d u r i n g t h e n e g o ti a ti o n s i t a p p e a r e d n o t to b e S in g h a n d J iy a n e ’s m a i n fo c u s . T h e e ff e c t o f th is w a s t h a t a s much as these c o m p o n e n ts were self-standing c o m p o n e n ts o f t h e n e g o t ia t io n s in t h e e n d i t w a s 20 t h e o v e r a ll p r ic e t h a t t h e C h a ir p e r s o n f o c u s e d o n . The Subcommittee made the fi n a l d e c is io n o n pricing.” A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o t h e n w h a t i s y o u r u n d e r s ta n d i n g o f w h a t h e is s a y in g th a t th e n e g o ti a te d p r i c e is 4 4 m il li o n , h is c a l c u l a t i o n is 4 1 m il li o n ? T h a t i s w h a t y o u s ta t e d . Page 99 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : S o i n r e f e r r in g u s t o t h a t p a r ti c u la r p a r a g r a p h w h a t – w h a t d o y o u m a k e o f M r L a h e r ’s r e s p o n s e r e m e m b e r in g th a t i t is in t h e c o n te x t o f y o u r f in d in g th a t y o u c o u l d n o t j u s ti f y t h e i n c r e a s e ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : W e ll I w o u ld t h e n f u r th e r t a k e u s t o a n o t h e r s ta t e m e n t a n d I w o u ld ju m p t o th is o n e t o o . Mr L a h e r ’s s t a te m e n t – h is p a r a g r a p h 3 3 o n p a g e 6 o f h is s e c o n d s ta t e m e n t. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : T h is i s in h i s s e c o n d s t a t e m e n t . 10 CHAIRPERSON: What paragraph? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Paragraph 33. C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Page 6. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: A n d I w o u l d a g a in q u o te v e r b a t i m fr o m h i s s ta t e m e n t . “ I n 2 0 1 4 p o s t t h e n e g o t ia t io n p r o c e s s … ” ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Huh-uh. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: 20 “ … M r S in g h e x p l a i n e d t o m e th e p r i n c i p l e e le m e n ts o f i te m s h e w o u ld lik e in c l u d e d i n a m e m o r a n d u m d e t a il in g th e r e a s o n s o f w h y th e p r i c e h a d i n c r e a s e d fr o m t h e b u s i n e s s c a s e s u b m is s io n . H e e x p la in e d t o m e t h e d e t a i l o f t h e f o r m a t i n w h ic h h e w a n t e d th e n u m b e r s p r e s e n t e d . M r Si n g h r e q u e s t e d t h a t I ty p e th e s e i n to a d r a ft o f Page 100 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 t h e m e m o r a n d u m p r e p a r e d b y th e Tr a n s n e t G r o u p C a p it a l D e p a r t m e n t . ” ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: N o w b a s e d o n w h a t y o u h a v e ju s t r e a d fr o m b o t h s t a t e m e n ts … M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : My c o n c l u s i o n … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: T h a t I i n t e r p r e t fr o m th is r e a d i n g t h e fir s t s t a t e m e n t i n c o n t e x t th e C h a i r p e r s o n w a s f o c u s – th a t th e r e w a s a f o c u s o n th e fi n a l p r ic e . T h a t t h e r e w a s t h e d e t a i l w h ic h m a d e 10 u p t h a t p r ic e w a s o f l e s s e r s i g n i fic a n c e . W e h a v e s e e n th e r a n g e o f t h e p r i c e s w h ic h w e r e in v o lv e d t h a t w a s t h e 3 8 .5 m i ll io n a n d t h e 4 9 m il li o n . Fi n a l ly a g r e e d p r ic e o f 4 4 m i ll io n . P o s t e v e n t M r L a h e r is n o w a s k e d to j u s t if y - c o m e u p w i t h r e a s o n s a s t o w h y t h e p r ic e o f 4 4 m i ll io n w a s ( in t e r v e n e s ) . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: B u t b e f o r e h e d o e s t h a t h e a r r iv e d a t 4 1 m il li o n ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : H e c a lc u l a t e d i t i n d e ta il e d fo r m … M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . 20 ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: For us … M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : A t Y L 2 4 . W e l o o k e d a t th a t a n n e x u r e . M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ye s . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : H e te ll s u s i n h is s t a te m e n t t h a t h e is t o l d th a t t h e n e g o ti a te d p r i c e is 4 4 m il li o n ? Page 101 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : M y r e a d i n g a n d y o u c o r r e c t m e if I a m w r o n g is t h a t h is c a l c u l a t i o n – n o t h e n e g o ti a t e d p r i c e is i n c o n s i s te n t w i th h i s c a l c u l a ti o n ? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct, correct. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: T h e r e is a s 3 m ill i o n d i ff e r e n c e b e tw e e n t h e two? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Correct. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: 10 O k a y a n d h e d o e s n o t s e e k a t l e a s t t h u s fa r t o o e x p l a i n t h a t d i ff e r e n c e … MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: I cannot … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I n t h a t p r ic e ? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: d i ff e r e n c e . Fi n d an e x p l a n a t io n of that H e d o e s m e n ti o n t h a t h e s a i d t o M r S in g h t h a t t h e e s c a l a t io n – t h e e s c a l a t i o n u s e d – c o r r e c t i o n . ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: D o y o u w a n t – w a n t to r e fe r t o t h e e x c h a n g e r a te u s e d ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : Ex c h a n g e r a te . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e w i ll g e t t o th e e x c h a n g e r a t e i s s u e . 20 MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: c a l c u l a ti o n w h ic h s u p p o r ts t h a t. But I can – do not fi n d a I c a n n o t f in d a n e x p l a n a ti o n o f t h e d i ff e r e n c e - w h y t h e d i ffe r e n c e b e t w e e n t h e p r ic e w h ic h h e c a lc u l a te d … A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: A n d t h e p r ic e w h ic h w a s f i n a ll y Page 102 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 agreed on. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: At 44? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: The 44. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: Thanks. C h a ir i t h a s b e e n b r o u g h t to m y a tt e n ti o n t h a t a l w a y s o v e r r u n n i n g t h r e e m i n u t e s in t o y o u r l u n c h h o u r. CHAIRPERSON: W h a t is y o u r e s ti m a t i o n o f h o w l o n g w e m ig h t n e e d Mr Callard? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Tw o h o u r s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : ( In d is ti n c t) . 10 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Yo u r m ic C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : If w e r e s u m e a t tw o th a t is u p to f o u r ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . C H A I R P E R S O N : H o w is y o u r a v a i la b il it y t o m o r r o w Mr C a ll a r d ? M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : I a m a v a i l a b l e t o m o r r o w C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : Yo u a r e a v a i l a b l e t o m o r r o w ? MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: I am a v a il a b l e to m o r r o w to c o n ti n u e i f n e e d b e . C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . I a m n o t fe e li n g t e r r ib ly w e ll . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : O k a y C h a ir. 20 CHAIRPERSON: I t h i n k i t m i g h t h e l p if w e s to p p e d . Th e n I c a n d o w h a t I n e e d t o d o to tr y a n d m a k e s u r e t h a t to m o r r o w I fe e l b e tt e r. A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : B a c k o n y o u r fe e t . Ye s C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : S o m a y b e r a t h e r t h a n a d j o u r n n o w f o r lu n c h a n d c o m e back and proceed up to four and then tomorrow I am worse. It might be b e t t e r th a t w e a d j o u r n n o w a n d a d j o u r n fo r th e d a y. Page 103 of 104 10 JULY 2019 – DAY 130 A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : W e a r e h a p p y t o d o s o C h a ir. CHAIRPERSON: Ja, ja. ADV MAHLAPE SELLO: W e c o n fi r m o u r a v a il a b i li ty a s w e l l f o r tomorrow morning. C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . I – I h a v e a s k e d th a t a r r a n g e m e n ts b e m a d e fo r a n o t h e r w it n e s s t o – M r N t s h is i t o b e h e r e t o m o r r o w a t 1 0 . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : Ye s . CHAIRPERSON: B u t I th i n k w h a t w e w i l l d o i s s t a r t w i th M r C a l la r d s in c e h e is i n t h e m i d d l e o f t h e e v i d e n c e a n d t h e n c o n t i n u e a n d t h e n 10 w h e n h e fi n i s h e s t h e n I c a n h e a r M r N ts h is i b e c a u s e t h e r e w a s n o o t h e r w i t n e s s y o u h a d f o r t o m o r r o w. Is th a t … ? A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : I w a s d o n e t o d a y C h a ir. C H A I R P E R S O N : J a , j a . N o t h a t is fi n e . Th e n M r C a l la r d w e w ill a s k that you come back tomorrow at 10. M R F R A N C I S Q U E N T I N C A L L A R D : C e r t a i n ly. C H A I R P E R S O N : I a m s o r r y th a t w e c a n n o t p r o c e e d . MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: I understand. C H A I R P E R S O N : I t h i n k i t i s g o i n g t o b e m u c h b e tt e r i n th e lo n g t e r m t h a t w e a d jo u r n n o w. 20 W e w il l a d j o u r n n o w a n d t h e n to m o r r o w w e w i ll r e s u m e a t 1 0 o ’ c l o c k . W e a d jo u r n . A D V M A H L A P E S E L L O : T h a n k y o u C h a ir. MR FRANCIS QUENTIN CALLARD: Thank you. R E G I S T R A R : Al l r i s e . I N Q U I R Y A D J O U R N S TO 11 J U LY 2 0 1 9 Page 104 of 104