C O M M I S S I O N O F I N Q U IR Y I N TO S TAT E C A P T U R E
H E L D AT
PA R K TO W N , J O H A N N E S B U R G

10

16 SEPTEMB ER 2019

D AY 1 6 4

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
PROCEEDINGS COM MENCE ON 16 SEPT EMBER 2019
CHAIRPERSON:

Good

morning

Ms

Gcabashe,

good

morning

e v e r y b o d y. G o o d m o r n in g M r T h a b e t h e .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC: Good morning
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : G o o d m o r n i n g C h a ir.
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

M o r n i n g C h a i r. M y a p o l o g ie s C h a ir I w a s

ju s t h a v i n g a s h o r t c o n s u l ta t io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC: With Mr Thabethe.
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

C h a i r M r T h a b e t h e h a s i n d ic t e d t h a t h e

w o u ld lik e to - t o a d d r e s s y o u .
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : T h is m o r n i n g o n o n e o r t w o m a t t e r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

I d o n o t k n o w i f y o u w a n t to s t a r t t h e r e

b e f o r e w e d o a n y th i n g e l s e ?
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s l e t – le t u s s t a r t w i t h h i m . Mr T h a b e t h e d o y o u
w a n t to s a y s o m e t h in g ?
20

M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E:

T h a n k y o u v e r y m u c h C h a ir.

Good

m o r n in g .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s g o o d m o r n in g .
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : C h a ir m y h u m b le r e q u e s t t o y o u a n d
t h e c o m m i s s io n i s t h a t I w o u ld r e q u e s t a p o s tp o n e m e n t i f it is p o s s i b l e
s in c e I d o n o t h a v e l e g a l s u p p o r t a t t h e c u r r e n t m o m e n t .

Page 2 of 12

I would

16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
t h e r e f o r e r e q u e s t th a t I b e a ffo r d e d a n o p p o r tu n it y to d o s o ; s o t h a t a s I
p r o c e e d a n d t h e n I a m b e i n g a s s is t e d w i t h t h a t k i n d o f s u p p o r t . T h a n k
y o u C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON:

I u n d e r s t a n d t h e l e g a l r e p r e s e n ta t iv e t h a t y o u h a d

b e f o r e h a v e w it h d r a w n , i s th a t c o r r e c t ?

Is t h a t w h y y o u d o n o t h a v e

le g a l s u p p o r t a s y o u p u t i t?
MR MBANA PETER THABETHE:

T h a t is c o r r e c t C h a ir.

I a m a c tu a l ly

in f o r m e d b y t h e c o m m is s i o n t h a t t h e y h a v e w i t h d r a w n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . Yo u – y o u h a v e n o t r e c e i v e d a n y c o m m u n ic a t io n
10

fr o m t h e m t o t h a t e ffe c t ?
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : N o t – n o t s o C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : W h e n w e r e y o u l a s t i n to u c h w i th t h e m ?
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : C h a ir o n Fr id a y w h e n I r e c e iv e d a c a l l
fr o m t h e c o m m i s s i o n th a t I a m d u e t o a p p e a r t o d a y a n d t h e n I th e n d i d
s p e a k t o t h e m a n d th e n w e h a v e a g r e e d t h a t w e w il l – I w il l s p e a k t o
t h e m a f t e r t h e s i tt i n g t o d a y s o t h a t w e – w h e t h e r th e r e is a p o s s ib il i ty
t o s o r t a n y d i ff e r e n c e t h a t a r e t h e r e w h ic h – w h ic h m i g h t b e v e r y
d i ff ic u l t C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

20

MR MBANA PETER THABETHE:

I f n o t t h e n I w il l t h e n r e q u e s t

a s s is t a n c e fr o m o th e r la w y e r s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MR MBANA PETER THABETHE:
s p e c i f ic a l ly in m a k in g a r e q u e s t .

A l s o C h a ir m a y b e a ls o a d d r e s s y o u
I am aware that the rule of the

c o m m i s s io n s ti p u l a te s t h a t y o u m a y b r i n g y o u r o w n l e g a l a s s is t a n c e . I

Page 3 of 12

16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
d o n o t k n o w i f t h e r e a r e a n y s p e c ia l a r r a n g e m e n ts in t h is r e g a r d f o r t h e
c o m m i s s io n to a s s is t . T h a t i s my r e q u e s t C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON:

W e l l t h e r e a r e n o t a n y a r r a n g e m e n ts i n t e r m s o f

w h ic h t h e c o m m i s s i o n p r o v i d e s a n y b o d y w i t h le g a l r e p r e s e n t a ti o n o r
a n y a s s is t a n c e a s s u c h . S o – s o w e d o n o t h a v e th a t . S o e a c h p e r s o n
m a k e s t h e ir o w n a r r a n g e m e n t . I k n o w th a t s o m e w h o a r e i n g o v e r n m e n t
a r e r e p r e s e n t e d b y th e S t a t e A t t o r n e y b u t I d o n o t k n o w w h a t
a r r a n g e m e n ts g e t m a d e a n d I d o n o t k n o w w h e t h e r t h e r e a r e a n y p e o p l e
w h o m i g h t b e r e p r e s e n te d b y t h e le g a l a i d b o a r d l a w y e r s I d o n o t k n o w.
10

B u t c e r ta i n ly t h e c o m m i s s i o n d o e s n o t h a v e a n y a r r a n g e m e n ts th a t i t
p r o v i d e s i n t e r m s o f w h ic h i t p r o v id e s l e g a l r e p r e s e n t a ti o n o r m a k e s
le g a l r e p r e s e n t a ti o n a v a il a b l e t o a n y b o d y.

T h e r e g u la t io n t h a t t a l k s

a b o u t l e g a l a s s is t a n c e f o r w i t n e s s e s is u n d e r s t o o d t o s i m p ly s a y y o u
m a y b r i n g y o u r la w y e r y o u k n o w. W e w ill n o t – t h e c o m m i s s io n w il l n o t
s a y n o , n o , n o a la w y e r i s n o t a ll o w e d h e r e . T h a t i t is u n d e r s to o d t o
n o t h i n g m o r e t h a n t h a t a n d th e n y o u c a n b r i n g y o u r l a w y e r. O f c o u r s e
w e – o n e w o u l d li k e a s it u a ti o n w h e r e i f s o m e b o d y w o u l d li k e t o b e
le g a l ly r e p r e s e n t e d t h e c o m m i s s io n w o u l d lik e t h a t t h a t b e a c h i e v e d b u t
a t t h e s a m e t i m e t h e c o m m i s s io n h a s a l i m i t e d l if e s p a n a n d it i s h a s
20

g o t t o d o t h e b e s t i t c a n t o u s e t h e ti m e t h a t i t h a s fr u i t fu lly a n d o f
c o u r s e a s I u n d e r s t a n d i t th is s t a g e w a s a r r a n g e d s o m e – q u i t e s o m e
ti m e b a c k a n d o n e w o u l d h a v e e x p e c te d t h a t y o u a n d y o u r l a w y e r s
w o u ld h a v e b e e n i n t o u c h w e l l i n a d v a n c e t o m a k e s u r e t h a t t h e
c o m m i s s io n w a s n o t d is r u p t e d i n i ts p l a n s . Yo u u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ?
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : I d o u n d e r s t a n d C h a ir.

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
CHAIRPERSON:

Ye s s o – s o i t is in c o n v e n i e n t w h e n w e s e t a s id e a

d a y f o r s o m e th i n g a n d th e n w e d o n o t u s e t h a t d a y b e c a u s e I th i n k
t o d a y w a s j u s t fo r y o u r e v id e n c e o n ly a n d t h e r e w e r e n o o t h e r w i tn e s s –
w a s p l a n n e d . S o a t t h is s ta g e y o u – y o u s a y y o u a r e n o t s u r e w h a t t h e
p r o b le m is w i t h y o u r l a w y e r s o r y o u d o h a v e a n i d e a w h a t t h e p r o b l e m
is ? Yo u j u s t n e e d t o t a lk to t h e m .
MR MBANA PETER THABETHE:

Ye s C h a ir I a m a w a r e w h a t i s t h e

p r o b le m .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : Ye s C h a i r.
CHAIRPERSON:

Hm.

M s G c a b a s h e d o y o u w a n t to s a y s o m e –

a n y th in g ?
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : Ye s C h a ir m a n . C h a ir m a n t h e r e i s a n e m a i l
t h a t M r T h a b e t h e ’s l a w y e r s h a d w r i t te n t o th e c o m m i s s i o n o n t h e 1 3
S e p te m b e r in w h ic h t h e y i n d ic a te t h a t t h e y a r e n o l o n g e r a b l e t o
represent Mr Thabethe.

I w o u ld s i m p ly lik e t o h a n d t h is u p w i th o u t

r e a d in g i t i n t o th e r e c o r d b y y o u r l e a v e C h a ir m a n h a n d t h i s u p f o r y o u r
r e c o r d s ? W e h a v e a r e c o r d a s w e ll .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o k a y.
20

M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : I h a v e a l s o in th e s h o r t c o n s u lt a ti o n I h a d
with Mr Thabethe – thank you – thank you very much – encouraged him
if t h e w o r s t c o m e s to t h e w o r s t t o p o s s i b l y a p p r o a c h t h e J o h a n n e s b u r g
B a r C o u n s e l o r t h e Pr e t o r i a B a r C o u n s e l o r t h e W it s L e g a l C li n i c o r
P r e t o r i a L e g a l C li n i c j u s t o n e s t h a t a r e in t h e c l o s e v i c i n i t y o f t h is
c o m m i s s io n ’s v e n u e s a n d p o s s ib ly s p e a k t o t h e m a s w e ll a b o u t g iv in g

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
h i m p r o - d e a l a s s is t a n c e . B e c a u s e a s w e a g r e e d th a t b e s t w e w i ll r u n
f o r tw o m o r e d a y s i n r e l a ti o n to h i s e v i d e n c e . S o i t is fo r a li m i t e d s p a n
o f t i m e a n d I th in k h e is a m e n a b l e to d o i n g th a t d e p e n d i n g o f c o u r s e o n
– o n h is d is c u s s i o n s w i th h i s le g a l t e a m .

S o t h o s e a r e t h e id e a s w e

w e r e s h a r i n g C h a ir m a n a n d I t h i n k t h a t g i v e n t h a t e v e r y n o w a n d a g a i n
t h e r e is a b it o f t e n s i o n b e t w e e n u s I t h in k i t is – w e h a v e a g r e e d t h a t
h e w il l b e m o r e c o m f o r ta b l e i f h e is g u i d e d b y a n o th e r s e t o f l a w y e r s
m u c h a s h e d o e s n o t th i n k t h a t w e a r e p a r t ia l o r b ia s e d o r p r e j u d ic e d in
t h e m a n n e r i n w h i c h w e a r e c o n d u c t in g o u r w o r k .
10

CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : T h a n k y o u C h a ir m a n .
CHAIRPERSON:

N o t h a t is f i n e .

O b v io u s ly a s l o n g a s t h e r e is

a p p r e c ia t io n th a t w h a te v e r y o u d o f o r o n e y o u w il l b e e x p e c t e d t o d o
for others.
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : P l e a s e e x p l a i n t h a t C h a ir m a n s o t h a t I a m
v e r y c le a r.

I h a v e d o n e n o t h i n g b u t j u s t s i m p l y in d ic a t e t h a t th e r e is

a s s is t a n c e a v a i l a b le .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , n o w h a t I a m s a y in g is i f y o u w i ll d o m o r e th a n
ju s t r e fe r h i m t o t h o s e t h e n o th e r s w i ll e x p e c t y o u t o d o w h a te v e r y o u
20

d o f o r i t . B u t if it is j u s t a r e f e r r a l t h e n i t is e a s y a n d t h e n e v e n if it is
d o n e f o r e v e r y b o d y i t s h o u ld n o t b e p r o b l e m .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

I n f a c t C h a ir m a n i t w a s j u s t a n i n d ic a ti o n

b e c a u s e I f in d m a n y p e o p l e d o n o t k n o w t h a t t h e s e p a r t ic u l a r
in s t i tu t io n s …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC: Do provide.
CHAIRPERSON: Ja.
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

N o t a s o f r i g h t b u t y o u w i ll r e q u e s t t h e n

y o u e i th e r g e t a [ i n d is ti n c t ] o f a n o .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s , y e s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : I a ls o m e n t io n e d t h e l e g a l r e s o u r c e s c e n tr e
to him.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : A n d L e g a l A id S o u th A fr ic a .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : B u t a g a i n a ll o f t h o s e in s ti t u t i o n s h a v e g o t
t h e ir r u l e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

A n d it i s j u s t a m a tt e r o f s a y i n g t o h i m

t h e r e a r e o t h e r i n s ti t u ti o n s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : T h a t m a y – m a y b e a b l e to a s s is t .
CHAIRPERSON: No that is fine.
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:
20

d is c u s s e d

was

th e

Th e o t h e r o p t io n C h a ir m a n t h a t w e

p o s s ib il i ty

of

getting

the

r e p r e s e n t a tiv e w h o a s s is t e d D o c t o r T h a b e th e .

d e p a r t m e n ta l

le g a l

I beg your pardon –

D o c to r M a s i te n g t o a s s is t h i m b e c a u s e t h e m a t t e r s h e is d e a l in g w it h
r e a l ly e m a n a t e fr o m h is t i m e a t t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f A g r ic u l t u r e a n d R u r a l
D e v e l o p m e n t . I b e l ie v e t h a t i t is a n o t h e r o p t io n h e m a y w is h to p u r s u e
s i m p l y b e c a u s e t h a t is h o w D o c to r M a s i t e n g w a s a s s is t e d .

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
C H A I R P E R S O N : W a s r e p r e s e n t a te d .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

By the – ja by the Department.

So we

r e a l ly j u s t tr ie d t o d is c u s s th e v a r io u s o p ti o n s w i t h o u t d i s c o u n ti n g h is
c u r r e n t s e t o f a t t o r n e y s i f h e i s a b le t o r e s o lv e t h e d i ff ic u l ti e s t h e r e .
C H A I R P E R S O N : H m . W e ll i t w o u l d b e i m p o r t a n t a s f a r a s p o s s i b l e t o
ensure

that

Mr

T h a b e th e

is

given

an

o p p o r tu n it y

to

get legal

r e p r e s e n t a ti o n b e c a u s e h e p l a y e d q u i te a s i g n i fic a n t r o l e i n t h e w h o l e
p r o j e c t t h a t w e a r e t a lk i n g a b o u t a n d s o t h a t i f a t a ll p o s s i b l e t h e r e c a n
be
10

no

concerns

that

because

there

–

he

did

r e p r e s e n t a ti o n t h e r e m a y h a v e b e e n u n f a ir n e s s .

not

have

legal

But I think if at all

p o s s i b le it w o u l d b e b e t te r t o a d jo u r n th e – h is f u r t h e r e v id e n c e t o a
s p e c i f ic d a t e s o t h a t i f h e i s l o o k i n g fo r a la w y e r h e l o o k s f o r a la w y e r
w h o is a v a il a b l e o n t h a t d a t e .

H e d o e s n o t l o o k fo r l a w y e r w h o w il l

a c c e p t to h e lp h i m b u t t h e n c o m e h e r e a n d a p p l y fo r a p o s t p o n e m e n t
a n d s a y h e is n o t a v a il a b l e . Yo u k n o w. S o I d o n o t k n o w i f y o u h a v e
g o t s o m e d a te s . T h e r e i s a w e e k w h e r e w e w e r e tr y in g to p u t i n s o m e
i m p l ic a t e d p e r s o n s in t h e p r o g r a m . I c a n n o t r e m e m b e r w h a t w e e k i t is .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : C h a ir m a n m a y I – w i t h y o u r l e a v e i n te r r u p t
y o u a n d a s k t h a t w e ta k e a v e r y s h o r t a d jo u r n m e n t .
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : P u ll u p t h e s c h e d u le t h a t y o u h a v e s i g n e d
o ff o n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : F i n d p a r t ic u l a r d a t e s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .

Page 8 of 12

16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

And then reconvene as soon as we have

lo o k e d a t th e s c h e d u le w it h y o u C h a ir m a n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : A n d t h e n s e t t h is m a t te r d o w n f o r t h o s e t w o
days.
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . N o t h a t is fi n e . Al s o w h a t y o u c a n d o i s s p e a k to
M s S e l lo .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : Ye s .
C H A I R P E R S O N : B e c a u s e s h e w a s p a r t o f t h e m e e t in g t h a t I h a d w i th
10

M r Pr e to r i u s l a s t w e e k w h e n w e w e r e l o o k i n g a t th a t w e e k t h a t f o r
w h ic h w e n e e d e d t o f i n d w i tn e s s e s . S o i t c o u l d b e th a t w e c o u ld l o o k
a t a d a t e o r t w o d a y s d u r in g th a t p a r t ic u la r w e e k .

S o m a y b e le t m e

adjourn for a short period and then you get the program and then speak
t o M s S e l l o i f p o s s i b l e b e c a u s e s h e w o u l d k n o w w h a t t h e l a te s t is a n d
t h e n – a n d th e n y o u le t m e k n o w th e n w e w i ll r e s u m e a n d t h e n I w i ll f ix
a d a te .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : A s y o u p le a s e C h a ir m a n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. Yo u u n d e r s t a n d th a t M r T h a b e t h e ?
MR MBANA PETER THABETHE:
20

I d o C h a ir.

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . W e a d j o u r n .
R E G I S T R A R : Al l r i s e .
MEETING ADJOURNS
HEARING RESUMES
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s M s G c a b a s h e .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC: Thank you DCJ

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
CHAIRPERSON: Hm.
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

D C J w e h a v e c o n s u l te d a s y o u r e q u e s t e d

u s to . T h e 3 r d a n d 4 t h o f O c t o b e r t h i s y e a r.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

Ar e t h e d a t e s th a t b o th Mr T h a b e t h e a n d

t h e c o m m i s s io n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC: Are agreeable to.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
10

MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

I f y o u th i n k t h a t th o s e a r e d a te s t h a t y o u

w o u ld lik e to h e a r M r – t h e r e s t o f M r Th a b e th e ’s e v i d e n c e o n ?
CHAIRPERSON:

Ye s o k a y. D o y o u c o n f ir m t h a t y o u w i ll b e a v a il a b l e

f o r t h o s e d a t e s Mr T h a b e t h e ?
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : I c o n fi r m C h a ir.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O k a y. S o a s y o u lo o k f o r a l a w y e r t h e n d o r e m e m b e r
t h a t y o u m u s t g e t o n e w h o w o u l d b e a v a i la b l e o n t h o s e d a te s s o th a t
y o u d o n o t g e t o n e w h o w il l c o m e a n d a p p ly f o r a p o s tp o n e m e n t
b e c a u s e t h e y s a y t h e y a r e n o t a v a il a b l e o n th o s e d a t e s .
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : I u n d e r s t a n d C h a ir I w i ll d o s o .
20

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s . S o I w il l t h e r e fo r e p o s tp o n e t h e h e a r in g o f y o u r
f u r th e r e v id e n c e t o t h e 3 r d o f – 3 r d a n d 4 t h o f O c to b e r t h is y e a r. S o y o u
m u s t p l e a s e c o m e b a c k a n d – s o th a t w e c a n f in is h w i th y o u r e v i d e n c e .
M R M B A N A P E T E R T H A B E T H E : It is a p p r e c i a t e d C h a ir.
CHAIRPERSON:

Okay thank you.

I am going to adjourn the

p r o c e e d i n g s f o r th e d a y b e c a u s e w e a r e n o t i n a p o s it i o n to c o n t in u e

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
w i t h Mr T h a b e t h e ’s e v i d e n c e . To m o r r o w a n d f o r I t h in k t h e r e s t o f th e
w e e k w e w i ll h e a r a w i t n e s s o r w i t n e s s e s r e l a ti n g to c r i m e i n te ll ig e n c e .
I a m n o t a n n o u n c i n g t h e n a m e o f th e w i t n e s s fo r t o m o r r o w b e c a u s e I
a m – I h a v e n o t b e e n a b l e to d o u b l e c h e c k th a t a n n o u n c i n g i t w o u l d n o t
b e p r o b l e m a tic b u t t h a t i s w h a t w e w il l b e d e a l i n g w i t h i n t h e n e x t fe w
days. We adjourn.
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : C h a ir m a n i f I m i g h t m a k e a s m a ll …
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : C o r r e c ti o n .
10

C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s .
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC:

W e a r e b a c k w i th y o u o n Fr id a y a n d

S a t u r d a y p o s s i b ly.
C H A I R P E R S O N : O h o k a y.
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : S o I th i n k …
C H A I R P E R S O N : S o i t w il l b e t h r e e d a y s ?
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC: It is three days.
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s o n Fr i d a y i t w i ll b e E s t in a .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : A n d t h e n y o u a r e b a c k w i th E s ti n a .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Es t in a . A n d S a t u r d a y.
20

M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : A n d S a t u r d a y.
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d S a t u r d a y.
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : A n d S a t u r d a y C h a ir m a n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : Ye s s o I t h i n k t h e c r i m e i n t e ll ig e n c e w i ll b e Tu e s d a y,
W e d n e s d a y, a n d T h u r s d a y.
MS LEAH GCABASHE SC: Correct Chairman.

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16 SEPTEMBER 2019 – DAY 164
C H A I R P E R S O N : A n d t h e n F r i d a y i t w il l b e E s ti n a a g a i n a n d S a t u r d a y.
W e w i ll s i t o n S a tu r d a y t h is t i m e a s w e l l .
M S L E A H G C A B A S H E S C : I f w e d o n o t f in is h w e w il l C h a ir m a n .
C H A I R P E R S O N : J a . O k a y. W e a d j o u r n f o r th e d a y. W e a d j o u r n .
R E G I S T R A R : Al l r i s e .
I N Q U I R Y A D J O U R N S TO 1 7 S E P T E M B E R 2 0 1 9

10

20

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